before and after school

[amelia lilly]

parent wanting 7.30 sometimes 8 then take to school for 9. after school 3.30 to 5 sometime till 6 then if staying until 6 wanting tea as well wot do i charge?

[natlou82]

I have a set rate for "breakfast club" of £5 and "after school session" (inc dinner) of £10 although I charge an additional £2.50 for pick ups between 5:30 and 6pm so £12:50. As always be aware of the rates in your area I'm Midlands.

[natlou82]

For a 5pm pick up I would not provide tea but the rate is the same x

[muffins]

I'm south east kent, I dont do before school and after sch I charge £15 for the session till 6pm inc dinner which is served at 5pm.

[bunyip]

parent wanting 7.30 sometimes 8 then take to school for 9. after school 3.30 to 5 sometime till 6 then if staying until 6 wanting tea as well wot do i charge?

Charge what you like: it's your business and you get to make your own choices.

For my part, I tried one way and then switched to another.

I used to work out all the school runs individually (as I do with EY contracts) because no 2 were the same (and that even goes for the ones for siblings, for duck's sake ) . I'd take into account time used, food costs, etc. I realised this had got silly when a mum wanted to pay me £1 to escort her child from her home to school, in the next street, and wait for the bell to go: thus paying me for 10-20 minutes of my time.

Hence, I introduced a flat-fee system. In my case, that's:

• £10 for before or after school, including up to 2 hours' care and breakfast or tea if they are here when served.
• £15 for before and after school, including up to 2 hours' care and breakfast and tea if they are here when served.

If they aren't here at mealtimes, they don't get fed (and I insist they have breakfast at home if they are arriving here too late for breakfast - I do not take hungry children to school.)

If a parent quibbles (eg. "Oh, I don't need the full 2 hours" etc.) I suggest they try another setting. If they need more time over and above, then I just charge that at my hourly rate.

[amelia lilly]

ok thanks everyone

[lollipop kid]

parent wanting 7.30 sometimes 8 then take to school for 9. after school 3.30 to 5 sometime till 6 then if staying until 6 wanting tea as well wot do i charge?

You didn't say the age of the child. If they're taking up an Early Years space (that is, if they're under 5 years old, or if it is still before 31st August prior to their 5th birthday), then I'd be tempted to charge an all day fee - that makes you responsible for the child while they're at school as well, and guarantees the parent a space in the summer months if they choose to use it. So if the school is closed for any reason i.e. inset day, power cut, strikes etc. then you can look after the child for the same fee that the parent pays normally without it affecting your other spaces, as the parent is paying you the full rate for that space anyway. This is what I normally propose to the parents and is what I have charged on many occasions. If the child is sick while at school, the parent still has to pick up the child though - and they've got to understand this before they get the idea that you start. Some parents with aged 5-8 children want this peace of mind as well.

Failing that, and for 'proper' school age children (i.e. for those where they have already turned 5 and it is after 31st August after their fifth birthday), then I charge a set fee of £20 for after-school care - that's 3 hours at £6 per hour (3pm-6pm), with the remaining bit going as their contribution towards food. (I find after-school eat a lot.) I'm in London, before anyone shoots me for being too expensive.

I don't actually do a breakfast club, but if I did, I would charge £10 minimum for 8am-9am, and this would include giving the child breakfast if they are here between 8am and 8.15am. Otherwise, the parents would need to feed the child before they arrive as I'd need to leave here at 8.30am to get the children to school on time. Note that if a parent wanted to start with me at 7.30am, I would charge them an extra £10 for this and only if I felt that it would not prove disruptive to my own family needs. (I have my own children that I need to get out for school so my earliest start is generally 8am. Something to bear in mind if you also have your own children.)

But - should the school be closed for any reason, then I would NOT be able to step in unless the parents had a contract whereby they paid for the full day every day - as I would then have to try to find another child who could do 9am-3pm only - and over the years, I've only ever had one and that was for a short-term space. It was a nightmare if the mum was late picking up, as well, so not something I'd want to repeat.

Just giving you some food for thought.

I hope this helps,

L

[lollipop kid]

Quote: "if it is still before 31st August prior to their 5th birthday" End quote


Correction: the above should have read "after" their 5th birthday...

(Hope that makes sense)

Apologies!

L

[lpatters]

I'm confused. I thought that once a child was in school full time they were no longer counted against your Early Years numbers? Am I wrong?

[lollipop kid]

I'm confused. I thought that once a child was in school full time they were no longer counted against your Early Years numbers? Am I wrong?

They are EYFS until 31st August after their 5th birthday. So taking my one of my ex-mindees for example. His birthday is end December. He started school full-time in January and he counted in my Early Years numbers until 1st September the following year - that is, after 31st August after his 5th Birthday (the previous December).

Here's an excerpt from PACEY:

"Ratios in England

Caring for childrenHow many children can I care for?

In England the number of children a childminder may care for and the indoor space requirements are set out in the Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage, Safeguarding and Welfare requirements.

A childminder may care for a maximum of six children under the age of 8. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children (a child is a young child until 1st September following their 5th birthday).

If a childminder employs an assistant or works with another childminder, each childminder (or assistant) may care for the number of children permitted by the ratios specified in sections 3.39/3.40 of the EYFS Statutory Framework, subject to any restrictions imposed by Ofsted on registration."

Hope that helps!

L

[lpatters]

Thanks Lollipop Kid.

This is why I'm confused. I had read this information on the pacey website after a parent had asked me to continue caring for her daughter after school only from Sept onwards. She only turns 4 at the end of Aug so will be a very young schoolie.

When I emailed ofsted for advice, this was their reply:

'If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six'

[lollipop kid]

Thanks Lollipop Kid.

This is why I'm confused. I had read this information on the pacey website after a parent had asked me to continue caring for her daughter after school only from Sept onwards. She only turns 4 at the end of Aug so will be a very young schoolie.

When I emailed ofsted for advice, this was their reply:

'If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six'

If you got that in writing, then you are covered should you have 4 young children at inspection. If it was verbal, then proceed very carefully and follow the PACEY guidelines.

[natlou82]

Yes IPatters once they attend school full time they count as a child 5-8.

[lollipop kid]

Yes IPatters once they attend school full time they count as a child 5-8.

I'd still want to check the Statutory Guidelines to cover yourself should an Inspector (or anyone else) question you on numbers. If you know the right information/section to quote back, or have something covering you in writing from Ofsted themselves, then you'll be fine.

(There have been loads of threads on this topic recently. I can't find one to attach at present, though.)

I personally am very cautious on anything relating to numbers of children I care for at any one time and always try to make sure I'm doing it by the book. (Boring, I know! However, my experience has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry.)

Good luck,

L

[natlou82]

It is in the EYFS statutory guidelines (I don't know if Bunyip has linked it in your other thread) it's too late for me to look now. I am confident in this but if you are unsure take a look in the guidelines and you'll find it.

[lpatters]

Thank you. Yes I've just seen the link on the other thread. Everyone on here is so helpful x

[alex__17]

Yes I was counting full time schoolies in reception in 5-8 category as detailed in eyfs as they are rising 5s so I charge 18 for after school 3-530 including snack and light tea, or 23 for before school too starting at 8 dropping to school for 845 inc breakfast. I then charge my normal hourly rate if they need holiday care as they count in 5-8 bracket for holidays

[amelia lilly]

He starts full time school in september, his 4 does he count in my 3 under 5 or is it 5 to 8?

[Mouse]

He starts full time school in september, his 4 does he count in my 3 under 5 or is it 5 to 8?

Once he is in full time scool (5 full days a week) he will count in your over 5 numbers. Although he will still be in the EYFS until 31st Aug following his 5th birthday, for the purpose of ratios he can be counted as being in the older age group. The term isn't used anywhere in the EYFS framework, but it is commonly known as being a 'rising 5'.

This is from section 3.42:

If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during
school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of
eight being cared for must not exceed six.

[lollipop kid]

Once he is in full time scool (5 full days a week) he will count in your over 5 numbers. Although he will still be in the EYFS until 31st Aug following his 5th birthday, for the purpose of ratios he can be counted as being in the older age group. The term isn't used anywhere in the EYFS framework, but it is commonly known as being a 'rising 5'.

This is from section 3.42:

If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during
school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of
eight being cared for must not exceed six.

Mouse, it's my understanding that, until the child actually starts school full-time, they are still in your early years ratio of 3 children. Once they are start school full-time (so after they have completed the settling in period at school and are attending for the full school day), then they can be counted in your 5-8s.

(I'd hate to see anyone getting pulled up at Inspection in May, June, July or August for having 4 EY children just because one is starting school full-time sometime in September the same year.)

Am I right or have I misunderstood?

In addition, we'd still have to assess this 4 year old until 31st August after his/her fifth birthday (EYFS paperwork), but then we can stop (if we choose to). Am I right in this as well? Can't believe I'm confused on this after all this time minding! (Bring back the old certificates/variations I say! Who needs this confusion?)

Thanks,

L