Payment in kind?

**Ripeberry** · 11-07-2008, 03:38 PM

Hi, can anyone clarify something for me?
If someone looks after a friends child in their home for over 2hrs a day and it is a regular thing..3 days a week and then that child's mother helps you out by looking after your child, is that "payment in kind"?
And if it is not, then OFSTED should be ok with it as its not breaking any rules regarding looking after children when you're not a registered childminder.
Just need it clarifying as feeling thick today

**wendywu** · 11-07-2008, 03:55 PM

No because it is just friends doing each other a favour. This happens with mums all over the land.

**sarah707** · 11-07-2008, 03:56 PM

The minute money changes hands, it becomes an offence not to be registered

**Ripeberry** · 11-07-2008, 03:58 PM

Phew that's OK as i was almost starting an argument on Mumsnet

Our ICP teacher is so funny about it, she thinks only relatives should look after children.

**wendywu** · 11-07-2008, 03:59 PM

Its not just money it can be chocolates or flowers. Remember the days when we got chocolates and flowers.

**Ripeberry** · 11-07-2008, 03:59 PM

And she said that even if it did not involve money, but you gave chocolates or flowers even that would not be allowed.

**Ripeberry** · 11-07-2008, 04:01 PM

Cross-post! That's whats puzzling me, if chocolates are a problem then looking after another person's child is a "payment".
This is such a grey area!

**Allie** · 11-07-2008, 04:03 PM

I think unless you look after the child in the childs own home it is going to be classed as childminding and therefore should be registered, even if there is no money payment you are being paid in kind

**Pauline** · 11-07-2008, 04:05 PM

Looking after the other persons child in return is payment in kind.

Payment in kind is, in effect, anything that gives you a reward for what you are doing. Having your child cared for is reward.

I do know someone who had a visit from Ofsted for this very thing, and Ofsted were insistant that they both register.

aly · 11-07-2008, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ripeberry

Cross-post! That's whats puzzling me, if chocolates are a problem then looking after another person's child is a "payment".
This is such a grey area!

we were also told this at our icp course, if flowers or anythign else changed hands

**Ripeberry** · 11-07-2008, 04:20 PM

Maybe i wasn't being so thick after all

. Don't know if any of you use Mumsnet but loads of people are saying that i'm wrong and that the whole of society will fall apart if people can't look after each others kids.
I just told them that it's OK if they go to each other's houses to do it!

**butterfly** · 11-07-2008, 04:34 PM

i had this a toddler's this morning! a lady said people didn't need childminder's - they just needed to find a friend in a similar situation who worked opposite days to them so they could look after each other's kids!

**Ripeberry** · 11-07-2008, 05:04 PM

Exactly! There are lots of people out there doing the very same thing and they are very lucky to have such good friends, especially if they don't have a mum or mil to help them out.
Makes a mockery of all the other people who use nurseries and childminders?
Most people see it as "community", using the village to bring up a child.
Nothing wrong with that, until OFSTED put their oars in!
Just a pity, they could have been customers

**Twinkles** · 11-07-2008, 05:15 PM

I think this is something ofsted won't be able to regulate. After all who hasn't left their child with a friend ? or picked someone elses up from school.

**Heaven Scent** · 11-07-2008, 06:23 PM

The world has gone mad !!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I know what they are saying but I really do feel its up to parents who they choose to let look after their children for short periods of time - how may of us have used our sisters and friends in the past and have either done the same thing in return or given them flowers - lets face it thats waht the extended family is all about - I feel its only a problem when someone tries to make a living out of it and they are not registered - they could be doing all sorts and having tonnes of children in their unsafe homes etc etc. I have a friend who has a LO about the same age as my LO and I sometimes have her and in exchange she (who is a beauty therapist) does a treatment for me but I have a contract etc etc in place for that child and I say I receive money to the value of the therapy so if say my friend charges £30.00 to someone for a treatment and she does it for friends for £20.00 In the evening over a glass of wine then I value my days minding at £20.00 - so she always does me a treatment to the value of £20.00 and I've put that my fee for her daughter for a day is £20.00 ( my fee is a bit cheaper for her as a friend also) and it goes in my books as though I've earned £20.00. I'd hate to be reported. I also looked after a friends children for a ridiculously low fee and sometimes I'd have some second hand toys from her that she was going to sell instead of the money as it suited me and I'd put that I received a the money from her instead.

I only do this with friends and on a very temporary basis and I have proper contracts with them and everything and if push came to shove we would actually exchange money then items/services but at the moment we leave out the fiddley middle stage so it suits us all fine.

Soon we won't be able to help friend out with anything at all e.g. a bit of gardening, changing a light bulb, feeding pets etc unless we let BIG BROTHER know about it.

**wendywu** · 11-07-2008, 06:42 PM

I was told that you had to have a material reward such as money, chocs or even flowers. But that it had to be a physical payment.

Another case of Ofsted not knowing what they mean

**flora** · 11-07-2008, 06:51 PM

As Pauline says it is payment in kind if the exchange childcare so to speak.

The only way round it is if the child is cared for in their own home.

**Pudding Girl** · 11-07-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ripeberry

Hi, can anyone clarify something for me?
If someone looks after a friends child in their home for over 2hrs a day and it is a regular thing..3 days a week and then that child's mother helps you out by looking after your child, is that "payment in kind"?
And if it is not, then OFSTED should be ok with it as its not breaking any rules regarding looking after children when you're not a registered childminder.
Just need it clarifying as feeling thick today

Yes it is an offence, as Pauline rightly says looking after your child for you, that is the payment in kind, doesn't have to be flowers or chocs, could be payment in massages, or payment in window cleaning, whatever lol

Also as it's OVER 2 hrs a day anyway, that instantly means no

I am a Netmum, the arch rival of Mumsnet lol - or mumsnutters as we call them, they invaded our forum once it was rather funny, they didn't like our spangly tickers

you got some right witches with a B over there!!

**brillminder** · 11-07-2008, 06:59 PM

i have always thought the same as pauline

**Blackhorse** · 11-07-2008, 07:08 PM

I was just wondering about this though.. say you are not a childminder or in the process of registering you would never even know that it was not ok.
If someone had told me a few months ago that they were looking after their friends kids and vice versa I would have said great idea! And if I had to go back to work in my office job and I could swap children with my friend I would have done so not knowing that there was anything wrong with it...Obviously now I know different but that's just because I am on this forum and in process of registering...
How are people meant to know that it is not ok? Or am I missing something really obvious here?