Pulling kids out of school

[line6]

The thing is ... It's not just the child who goes away who is affected by the week away. That child might be learning all sorts of things and having amazing experiences. But when they return to class the teacher is going to have to take time out to teach the child what they have missed, and the rest of the class is held back a bit whilst this happens. If this happens once, with just one child it can be dealt with, but when the class take it in turn week by week to be away, the whole class can be held back. I help in a class where children seem to always be away in termtime and it is hard to help some of these children catch up. I agree that in the last few days of the summer term not much is done but that is the only time.

I wrote a log post about this earlier but then deleted it as I couldn't seem to make myself make sense! But basically I agree - it's the knock on effect of lots of children taking time out that must drive teachers mad. Imagine that plus illness and all in all they must spend a great deal of time repeating things that one or two children have missed.

I also think that too many people abuse the system - lots of time off sick maybe and add to that list of 'exceptional circumstances' for holidays. We want our schools to provide the best education but also want to bend the rules to suit ourselves. Don't get me wrong I have taken my children out of school for a holiday (at infants and pre-approved before these fines came in) so I'm not preaching here just think there is a bigger picture. The cost of holidays drives me crazy even though I am in the privileged position of being able to afford one. I still consider it a luxury though.

[loocyloo]

I wrote a log post about this earlier but then deleted it as I couldn't seem to make myself make sense! But basically I agree - it's the knock on effect of lots of children taking time out that must drive teachers mad. Imagine that plus illness and all in all they must spend a great deal of time repeating things that one or two children have missed.

I also think that too many people abuse the system - lots of time off sick maybe and add to that list of 'exceptional circumstances' for holidays. We want our schools to provide the best education but also want to bend the rules to suit ourselves. Don't get me wrong I have taken my children out of school for a holiday (at infants and pre-approved before these fines came in) so I'm not preaching here just think there is a bigger picture. The cost of holidays drives me crazy even though I am in the privileged position of being able to afford one. I still consider it a luxury though.

It took me several attempts to get it written down that I think it made sense!

[smurfette]

The thing is ... It's not just the child who goes away who is affected by the week away. That child might be learning all sorts of things and having amazing experiences. But when they return to class the teacher is going to have to take time out to teach the child what they have missed, and the rest of the class is held back a bit whilst this happens. If this happens once, with just one child it can be dealt with, but when the class take it in turn week by week to be away, the whole class can be held back. I help in a class where children seem to always be away in termtime and it is hard to help some of these children catch up. I agree that in the last few days of the summer term not much is done but that is the only time.

But I do think this is where you know your child., here in Ireland they don't seem to mind kids being taken out of school and there are no fines. But I do see what you are saying. However a child who has had very little absence and is doing well at school should catch up pretty quickly with work especially if parents help, we did take the girls out before and they did extra homework plus a bit of stuff they had done in class, at home.. Luckily my girls are academic so I really don't think it would have affected the rest of the class. With the work my dh does he is very limited to quiet times taking time off, there are times when he simply can't, and we first did it a couple of month after my dad died of cancer, we had had a really long stressful time for a couple of years and just needed time as a family. Every circumstance is different and people have to decide themselves what is appropriate,, that said we have no fines or Ofsted here!

[scottishlass]

I am in Scotland so don't have fines at the moment. We usually holiday in the school holidays - I have twice taken my eldest out of school on a Friday which are a half day here.

At the time my youngest hadn't started school and we took one Friday for my mother in laws wedding and another for us to leave for a holiday to Paris with the extended family a day earlier than the school holidays.

Both times I wrote a letter to the head teacher asking for permission and both times I received a letter to say on this occasion it would be authorised. I would only do it for something like above and if I got permission - didn't feel guilty as Fridays at my daughters school consists of assembly and big golden time before they finish at 12.20.

Xx

[The Juggler]

No they don't they fine for each absence and each parent so if it is one child each parent will be fined if it is two again each parent will be fined for each child.

I wish it was for each day of absence then maybe more parents would have to think twice about taking a child out of school.

ricky it's changed here - from this sept it is per day, per child, per parent so for each day of the holiday both parents get fined for how ever many children - they said the previous fine wasn't doing the job of putting parents off as it wasn't high enough.

[AdeleMarie88]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-26517395

On bbc news today!

[amylouise867]

Ave just looked at prices for a midweek stay at Centre Parcs and they are extortionate in school holidays . And yet if I pull them out of school at the beginning of May it's only £400!!!!!!! Am debating whether to pull them out of school and risk the fine. Has anyone else done this? And if so, did u get a fine???

Personally I would take your child out!
Yes I know technically this isn't the 'right' thing to do but for heaven sake -
They learn a lot more going away, getting out in the great outdoors, having quality family time, learning about different places, learning new skills, learning about cultures and ways of life.

If you child isn't behind and is a regular attendee of school I would request the holiday and pay the fine if need be.

xx

[rickysmiths]

Don't agree with these fines at all, At the end of the day I won't have anyone telling me what I can and can't do with my kids, 5 or 10 days off school isn't such a big deal! Stop forcing education down children's throats and let children be children!

But you have 14 weeks and 52 weeks to have holidays and enjoy your children is it really so hard to go on holiday then?

It is a question of keeping to the rules of school we are not forcing education down any children's throats they are only at school for 38 weeks a year.

I am shocked to be honest I wonder how you would feel if your parents had such little respect for your Policies and Contracts?

'For goodness sake you can care for a sick child can't you? I do at home.' I wonder?

[rickysmiths]

I take my child out of school for holidays, IMO family time (and I'm talking time with grandparents and great grandparents) is just as important, if not more important, as sitting in a classroom with 30 other kids.

My son always likes to take things back to show his class, last year we went up an active volcano (thankfully not active when we were on it!), he told his whole class about it. He's not going to get that experience here in scotland!

We don't have fines here, yet! But Id pay the fines if it came to it, my child, my decision.

But isn't the 14 weeks school holidays and 52 weekend in a year plenty of time to do all this? I never missed out as a child, nor did my husband and nor have our children but neither of us or our children have ever been taken out of school for a holiday.

[Ripeberry]

I feel sorry for the parents who are NOT allowed to have time off during school holidays. There must be a law against the employers who try to enforce this, especially when it goes against families?

[tinkerbelle]

they can higher the fine im not concerned it will be quiet amusing the council trying to find my ex husband to slap a fine on him due to his work having set holidays and my oldest son wishing to go with him and with us I have to take my holidays towards the end of august which then runs into September and due to my ex having set holidays why should my other children miss out because we may get fined in my opinion if the government cracked down on the high price increase from the travel agents then there would be no need for fines because everyone would go during holiday times and I may just send a letter fining my childs school next Wednesday due to them having a strike day that one I don't authorise and 2 has a negative effect on my childs education as he is unable to attend lessons and my kids are in senior school and have 5 teachers each per day I think that equates to £300 each per day but will the government fund this ??

[rickysmiths]

Personally I would take your child out!
Yes I know technically this isn't the 'right' thing to do but for heaven sake -
They learn a lot more going away, getting out in the great outdoors, having quality family time, learning about different places, learning new skills, learning about cultures and ways of life.

If you child isn't behind and is a regular attendee of school I would request the holiday and pay the fine if need be.

xx

Really at Centre Parcs in England? You could do more of that by visiting some of the wonderful Heritage sites around the British Isles and really seeing some of the culture and history of the Country they live in.

[rickysmiths]

they can higher the fine im not concerned it will be quiet amusing the council trying to find my ex husband to slap a fine on him due to his work having set holidays and my oldest son wishing to go with him and with us I have to take my holidays towards the end of august which then runs into September and due to my ex having set holidays why should my other children miss out because we may get fined in my opinion if the government cracked down on the high price increase from the travel agents then there would be no need for fines because everyone would go during holiday times and I may just send a letter fining my childs school next Wednesday due to them having a strike day that one I don't authorise and 2 has a negative effect on my childs education as he is unable to attend lessons and my kids are in senior school and have 5 teachers each per day I think that equates to £300 each per day but will the government fund this ??

To be fair this is a completely different issue and all workers (with a few exceptions ) have the right to strike with no notice either. The whole school will be closed (or whole classes at least) and so none of the children will miss out on their education because there will be no lessons to miss. The teachers who strike by the way lose a days pay.

When a child is taken out of school during term time they indeed do miss out on what is being taught at that time.

As a childminder if you are closed because you take a day off you have no children, you do no activities or outings so no one misses anything. If a parent decides to keep their child with them on a contracted day or go for a weeks holiday and you are working, that child will miss the days or weeks activities and outings. Will you go back a redo all the activities on the child's return so they will then have missed nothing? I somehow doubt it.

The schools will allow time off in exceptional circumstances and forces etc will be looked at. If your son has contact with his father then they surely will be able to contact him? If they fine you would you not want him to pay his share?

[tinkerbelle]

no thankfully I don't have contact with my ex I don't even want to know where hes moved to I do however know that because hes on supervised access to the children two of which refuse to see him his holidays are fixed to when his supervisor his mum can travel which in turn makes it exceptional circumstances for myself having to go when I do other wise my son would not be allowed with his father on holiday
I have just contacted my local council and where I live its a set fee of £120 per child for the duration of the holiday reduced to £60 if paid within 21 days so a grand total of £180 fine for removing my children from school compared with £1500 extra I would have paid and not been able to take my son I think that's a bargain
as for schools striking it stinks im sorry but that is still a days education missed and what about all the teacher trainings of which my sons school has at least 6 days per year why are these not done during the holidays and instead are disrupting my childs education

[rickysmiths]

no thankfully I don't have contact with my ex I don't even want to know where hes moved to I do however know that because hes on supervised access to the children two of which refuse to see him his holidays are fixed to when his supervisor his mum can travel which in turn makes it exceptional circumstances for myself having to go when I do other wise my son would not be allowed with his father on holiday
I have just contacted my local council and where I live its a set fee of £120 per child for the duration of the holiday reduced to £60 if paid within 21 days so a grand total of £180 fine for removing my children from school compared with £1500 extra I would have paid and not been able to take my son I think that's a bargain
as for schools striking it stinks im sorry but that is still a days education missed and what about all the teacher trainings of which my sons school has at least 6 days per year why are these not done during the holidays and instead are disrupting my childs education

Only 5 inset days a year. These days are not part of the 190 days (38 weeks ) that the children have to attend school to be educated. So your child does not miss any education when there is an inset day because they are not Teaching days.

I as a childminder I have 4 PAID Training days a year all put in my Contracts because NCMA recommended we do this 10 years ago and I found that a lot of Training was taking part on week days. All my parents support me in this, maybe they realise the value of Training to up date and add to my skills. Now as a self employed person I also do Training at the weekends and in the evening.

However as an employed person I would expect to do any such Training in paid work time. In work places I have worked in we were released for the time it took to do the training our boss wanted us to do, in one case for me that was one day a week at college for a year to complete a Food Hygiene Diploma. I was still paid my salary and my employer would never have dreamt of expecting me to use 38 days annual holiday to do the course (I only got 20 days then and that would have been nearly 2 years holiday!).

Now why should a Teacher use their annual holiday to complete Professional Development which helps them keep up to date and learn new skills to Teach your child?

[emma04]

Let's remember something here....We are all a long time dead and will never get back the time we spend with our children. So why not have that time whenever and wherever we want to??!!!

[AdeleMarie88]

Let's remember something here....We are all a long time dead and will never get back the time we spend with our children. So why not have that time whenever and wherever we want to??!!!

That's a very juvenile response, life, sadly, just isn't that simple!

[amylouise867]

Really at Centre Parcs in England? You could do more of that by visiting some of the wonderful Heritage sites around the British Isles and really seeing some of the culture and history of the Country they live in.

Obviously it depends where your going as to which they will gain more of out of my list - I am being general.

We have a difference in opinions about this and it's totally fine.

I Appriciate your views and your points - I see where you are coming from but it doesn't make me change my own.

xx

[amylouise867]

That's a very juvenile response, life, sadly, just isn't that simple!

Think the use of the word juvenile is not nessisary if I am honest with you.

Life isn't simple because we don't allow it to be half the time.

A question was asked and we are giving our own personal feelings and thoughts across that's all.

Just because we have a different view to the next person doesn't make them wrong or juvenile as you say. It means we are different and we are allowed to be.

xx

[AdeleMarie88]

Definitely agree we make life harder for ourselves!!

However, we can't pick and choose which rules/laws to follow because life is too short, believe me I know life is too short, but that's not at all the point here. Which is why I think that response was juvenile. I can't think of another word to use to describe that argument.

Sadly there are just things we have to do, children have to go to school, and any holidays, luxuries, just have to happen outside school hours. That to me is as simple as I can make it. Just because life is too short, doesn't mean we can use that as an excuse to break rules, and then justify it to ourselves.


I don't believe this is a debate that I will ever change my mind on, (something I think you already said)

Enjoy having this forum as a platform to have these discussions though!