Vegetarian childminder

**Trpta108** · 29-10-2010, 10:34 PM

Seems I am being misunderstood. I do most surdenly not have a problem with other religions and beliefs, I just want to have the right to practice my own. If childminding means I have to go against my own beliefs, then it is not for me. Shame though, children really is my passion.

**PixiePetal** · 29-10-2010, 11:10 PM

I can't see a problem in serving only vegetarian food. If it was explained to parents when they visited, it is their choice to have it or maybe go elsewhere. Respect for religious beliefs goes both ways. You may find parents with the same beliefs who will find you are just who they need.

We can all try but can't do everything that every parent wishes - there is usually a happy compromise.

Vegetarian food can be as nutritious and varied I am happy to supply it if needed - I am very much a meat eater myself though

**Trpta108** · 29-10-2010, 11:34 PM

Thankyou PixiePetal, just hope Ofsted see it the same way.

**sweets** · 30-10-2010, 08:08 AM

i think there is a big difference in a meat eating family that provides veggie food and and veggie family having to supply meat.
Meat eaters do not have to have meat to make a meal, but veggies definately cant have it! 'im not explaining my thinking very well really'

As for 'the law of being inclusive' then im sorry but who on earth is going to enforce or fine someone for not providing meat if it goes against thier beliefs!

you are a veggie family and should remain that way. Parents will have a choice in wether to send their children to you in the same way a parent will have a choice to send their children to a minder who has a dog (which is something i would never do) its a choice!

The child that only eats 'ham sandwiches' will have to be told sorry but they cant have them at your house and will have to eat something else. i think we pander to fussy eaters too much and sometimes children just have to be told NO! That makes me sound really hard! i would make a child eat something they dont like but persuasion is sometimes neccessary.

its up to you if you mention it to ofsted, personally i wouldnt as its none of their business, if they see it in your parent pack then i doubt they will even comment. but if they do comment on it then just ask them if a muslim family would be made to serve pork!!

i do eat meat now but was veggie for years and wish i still was really but i got a bit fed up of eating the same meals as i wasnt very inventive! and im not a huge veg fan

**Trpta108** · 30-10-2010, 10:23 AM

Thankyou! I feel so much better now. Good idea to put it in the parent pack.

**haribo** · 30-10-2010, 10:57 AM

trine , dont worry about ofsted . i am vegetarian but always offered to serve meat if parents supplied it. i didnt really want to do this but thought i had to , luckily no parents wanted it

at my last inspection the inspector asked why i offer meat if its against my beliefs .. she said the last nursery she inspected is totally vegetarian and got outstanding

and this was under eyfs btw .

**Mouse** · 30-10-2010, 12:02 PM

I think you can offer a very varied, healthy diet as a vegetarian, without the need for meat. Healthy eating is about supplying the main food groups in the right proportions, not about making sure you include certain foods.

I don't know of any religions or health issues that say you HAVE to have meat, so you're not denying a necessity or preventing a child from following its family's beliefs.

If you went into a vegetarian restaurant you wouldn't expect to be served meat, then moan about them not being inclusive when you weren't!

As long as families are aware that you will be serving vegetarian food, then there is no problem as long as you can demonstrate that the children will still be served a healthy, balanced diet. If they know from the beginning, they can't complain about it at a later date.

And if a family comes to see you & they do decide it's a problem, you would just tell them that you are sorry, you won't be able to care for their child as you are not in aposition to meet their needs.

jumpinjen · 30-10-2010, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Trine

I guess you are not religious, since you dont understand there is things one will not do if they have faith in their religion. I would not have a problem ommitting foods from a childs diet if the parent wished so, but as I said, I cannot because of my beliefs serve meat. I do respect that other people choose to serve and eat meat, but I suppose I will have to say I would also expect the parents to respect my choice not to. Would you expect a muslim to serve pork? I would imagine there are muslims who wouldnt be happy doing that.

it is a requirement in law to be inclusive and yes if a Muslim minder refused to serve pork to a child that requires a balanced diet including meat as part of their culture then yes I would expect them to serve it. minders without any particular beliefs are expected to meet the varied needs of children and families, so should minders with specific beliefs be expected to meet varied needs and not disctiminate. I think your reply to sarah was quite rude tbh!!

jen x

**Mouse** · 30-10-2010, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by jumpinjen

it is a requirement in law to be inclusive and yes if a Muslim minder refused to serve pork to a child that requires a balanced diet including meat as part of their culture then yes I would expect them to serve it. minders without any particular beliefs are expected to meet the varied needs of children and families, so should minders with specific beliefs be expected to meet varied needs and not disctiminate. I think your reply to sarah was quite rude tbh!!

jen x

But are there any cultures where meat HAS to be eaten?

**Trpta108** · 30-10-2010, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by jumpinjen

it is a requirement in law to be inclusive and yes if a Muslim minder refused to serve pork to a child that requires a balanced diet including meat as part of their culture then yes I would expect them to serve it. minders without any particular beliefs are expected to meet the varied needs of children and families, so should minders with specific beliefs be expected to meet varied needs and not disctiminate. I think your reply to sarah was quite rude tbh!!

jen x

I am very sorry If that came across as rude, that was surdenly not the intention. Many apoligies!
I cant help feeling it as discrimination though, if I have to compromise my religion to work as a childminder. And the same for a muslim to have to serve pork.

jumpinjen · 30-10-2010, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

But are there any cultures where meat HAS to be eaten?

I think that there are some yes...... peoples descended from American Indian heritage have certain religious rites that include the heart and liver of animals but even if no.... why should there have to be?? And where do you stop? Do you refuse to administer medicines that may contain animal products, or refuse to allow the children to wear leather shoes when attending your settings?

Jen x

**Mouse** · 30-10-2010, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Trine

I am very sorry If that came across as rude, that was surdenly not the intention. Many apoligies!
I cant help feeling it as discrimination though, if I have to compromise my religion to work as a childminder. And the same for a muslim to have to serve pork.

I don't believe for one minute that Ofsted would expect a Muslim childminder serve pork. They can provide a perfectly balanced diet without it.

jumpinjen · 30-10-2010, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Trine

I am very sorry If that came across as rude, that was surdenly not the intention. Many apoligies!
I cant help feeling it as discrimination though, if I have to compromise my religion to work as a childminder. And the same for a muslim to have to serve pork.

I think it is tricky really..... with childminding there is flexibility to choose one minder over another so if parents really want their child to eat meat then they can choose a minder who is happy to serve it. I just don't agree with all the comments about it not mattering if children who normally eat meat aren't ever served it.... culture is about more than religious requirements and I think that those people should be respected just as much as people with specific requirements and not spoken about as if they don't matter!!

Jen x

jumpinjen · 30-10-2010, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

I don't believe for one minute that Ofsted would expect a Muslim childminder serve pork. They can provide a perfectly balanced diet without it.

But if that child's normal diet contains meat then it contains meat and it shouldn't be an assumption that it's ok to switch meals around to suit the minder.... as I've said in another post parents are free to choose where they send their child so to a certain extent this conversation is irrelevant as we can all make up our own rules for our own businesses but discrimination is discrimination whoever it is applied to and as there are laws that apply, people have to be very careful.
jen x

**Trpta108** · 30-10-2010, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by haribo

trine , dont worry about ofsted . i am vegetarian but always offered to serve meat if parents supplied it. i didnt really want to do this but thought i had to , luckily no parents wanted it

at my last inspection the inspector asked why i offer meat if its against my beliefs .. she said the last nursery she inspected is totally vegetarian and got outstanding

and this was under eyfs btw .

Made my day

, there is hope.

**Mouse** · 30-10-2010, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by jumpinjen

I think that there are some yes...... peoples descended from American Indian heritage have certain religious rites that include the heart and liver of animals but even if no.... why should there have to be?? And where do you stop? Do you refuse to administer medicines that may contain animal products, or refuse to allow the children to wear leather shoes when attending your settings?

Jen x

So are you saying that if a child came to us from American Indian descent where it was part of their culture to they eat the heart & liver of the animals, then we would have to do that in order to be inclusive

But that isn't the debate here anyway. The debate is, should a vegetarian cm have to serve meat. In my opinion the answer is no.

I have a cm friend who refuses to celebrate Halloween as it is against her religious beliefs. Are you saying she is at fault for not allowing any reference to it in her house? Should she be doing Halloween acticities with the mindees as some of their parents love it?

She is very clear from the outset that she will not celebrate it and parents accept this. I see this as being no different to a cm not providing meat because of her beliefs.

As regard to medicine, the cm has made no mention of being vegan and avoiding animal products completely.

**Mouse** · 30-10-2010, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by jumpinjen

But if that child's normal diet contains meat then it contains meat and it shouldn't be an assumption that it's ok to switch meals around to suit the minder.... as I've said in another post parents are free to choose where they send their child so to a certain extent this conversation is irrelevant as we can all make up our own rules for our own businesses but discrimination is discrimination whoever it is applied to and as there are laws that apply, people have to be very careful.
jen x

I don't think a vegetarian not serving meat would be seen as discrimination

**Trpta108** · 30-10-2010, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by jumpinjen

I think that there are some yes...... peoples descended from American Indian heritage have certain religious rites that include the heart and liver of animals but even if no.... why should there have to be?? And where do you stop? Do you refuse to administer medicines that may contain animal products, or refuse to allow the children to wear leather shoes when attending your settings?

Jen x

Good point! No I would not refuse to administer medicines containing animal products as it would be for health reasons, nor leather shoes as it is ofcourse the parent who buy the shoes and their choice, as it is their choice what they feed their children.

**Mouse** · 30-10-2010, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by jumpinjen

But if that child's normal diet contains meat then it contains meat and it shouldn't be an assumption that it's ok to switch meals around to suit the minder.... as I've said in another post parents are free to choose where they send their child so to a certain extent this conversation is irrelevant as we can all make up our own rules for our own businesses but discrimination is discrimination whoever it is applied to and as there are laws that apply, people have to be very careful.
jen x

What if a child normally eats junk food for every single meal at home. Are we not allowed to assume it is OK to switch meals round to suit the cm? Would we have to carry on providing junk food no matter what our thoughts on it?

**haribo** · 30-10-2010, 01:12 PM

i find it incredible that it could be seen as discrimination if we refuse to serve meat to a child who normally eats meat . anyway this is surely someting that would be discussed and agreed at the contract signing stage so it wouldnt even be an issue . its like saying we should serve mcdonalds if a child normally eats it . im not going to serve up something that has been tortured , beaten then killed in horrific despicable circumstances just to be `inclusive`.

just thought of something else - my food premises inspector wa sdelighted with the fact i kept a vegetarian kitchen as it does away with many potential issues and she said she had never had a food poisoning case from a veggie caterer