Changing number of children allowed?

**Amanda70** · 29-04-2015, 07:09 PM

Hi, I'm in the process of registering and a friend of mine who is also a child minder has come and told me that our LA have told them that Ofsted have changed their rules, now say that your children up to the age of 16 are included in your numbers. Has anyone else been told this?

**loocyloo** · 29-04-2015, 07:15 PM

Are you in Scotland?

I know that depending upon which part of Scotland you are in, your ratio includes children up to the age of 12 or 16.

I've not heard anything about changing ratio ages for England. Insurance companies or local council /LA planning might put restrictions on the number/age of children I guess.

**Amanda70** · 29-04-2015, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by loocyloo

Are you in Scotland?

I know that depending upon which part of Scotland you are in, your ratio includes children up to the age of 12 or 16.

I've not heard anything about changing ratio ages for England. Insurance companies or local council /LA planning might put restrictions on the number/age of children I guess.

No, I'm in Walsall

**moggy** · 29-04-2015, 07:47 PM

They count as children until then and from then need their own DBS- could that be what they mean?
I think wires are crossed somewhere! Childcare Register and EYFS Statutory Framework have not been undated this year. Ratios are clearly stated there. Maybe they are talking about max number of children for PLI insurance purposes?

**Amanda70** · 29-04-2015, 08:09 PM

No Walsall L.A. have definitely told existing childminders that Ofsted say that childminders children up to 16 are included in their numbers, so no more that 6 children up to age 16. Sounds potty to me!!

**tulip0803** · 29-04-2015, 10:16 PM

Is it to do with planning? Lots of LA Planning departments are restricting childminders in numbers of children on the premises up to the age of 16 - My LA restricts me to 6 mindees of any age (my own children are not included by the planning dept only have 1 under 16 now but at one time there were 3), I have heard from minders in Wirral that they are restricted to 4 minded children. You can apply for planning permission to increase numbers but it depends on you LA how much it will cost and can take a long time

I just stick to the 6. All planning departments work to there own rules.

**Amanda70** · 30-04-2015, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by tulip0803

Is it to do with planning? Lots of LA Planning departments are restricting childminders in numbers of children on the premises up to the age of 16 - My LA restricts me to 6 mindees of any age (my own children are not included by the planning dept only have 1 under 16 now but at one time there were 3), I have heard from minders in Wirral that they are restricted to 4 minded children. You can apply for planning permission to increase numbers but it depends on you LA how much it will cost and can take a long time

I just stick to the 6. All planning departments work to there own rules.

Thanks, yes just found out it is the LA enforcing it not Osted. Seems so wrong , I feel sorry for those that have a few of their own children because Walsall are including those in the six allowed

**JCrakers** · 30-04-2015, 07:18 AM

So the LA are enforcing it on existing childminders? That means they have to lose children? Wow

If my county did that Id go out of business. I've got 2 of my own (16 an 13) and would have space for 5 which would mean getting rid of 3 families. Hope my LA don't do that otherwise I'll be looking for another job

Some children have been here for 7.5yrs and are like family, can you imagine if they had to go somewhere else.

**Amanda70** · 30-04-2015, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by JCrakers

So the LA are enforcing it on existing childminders? That means they have to lose children? Wow

If my county did that Id go out of business. I've got 2 of my own (16 an 13) and would have space for 5 which would mean getting rid of 3 families. Hope my LA don't do that otherwise I'll be looking for another job

Some children have been here for 7.5yrs and are like family, can you imagine if they had to go somewhere else.

Yes my friend is a childminder and she is having to give notice on 2 of her minded children and obviously going to lose income. Its almost as if they don't want Childminders!! Problem is the other childminders in the area are now having to get rid of some of their schoolies because theres less income from them and they can only have six children in their settings now.

**FussyElmo** · 30-04-2015, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Amanda70

Yes my friend is a childminder and she is having to give notice on 2 of her minded children and obviously going to lose income. Its almost as if they don't want Childminders!! Problem is the other childminders in the area are now having to get rid of some of their schoolies because theres less income from them and they can only have six children in their settings now.

They need to get DfE involved as this is not a requirement set out in the eyfs.

Maybe a email saying they are contacting the DfE might stall having to give notice

**JCrakers** · 30-04-2015, 11:33 AM

That's awful...

**loocyloo** · 30-04-2015, 11:53 AM

:-( that is truly awful.
Have they given a reason?

**Amanda70** · 30-04-2015, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by loocyloo

:-( that is truly awful.
Have they given a reason?

I have emailed the L.A. to find out

**Mouse** · 30-04-2015, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Amanda70

I have emailed the L.A. to find out

It'll be very interesting to hear what they have to say.

If they are limiting childminders it is very short-sighted. Where are they going to find childcare places for all the children who have to leave their childminders? Our LA is struggling to find spaces as it is, so I'm hopeful they wouldn't do anything so bad. It wouldn't really affect me as my own children are older and I only look after EYs children (so a maximum of 4 here). It would have a huge impact on many local cms though, especially the ones with young children of their own.

**blue bear** · 30-04-2015, 08:24 PM

Are they enforcing because of planning regulations?

A quick google brought this up

Summary
The following rules can be set:
1. If there are less than 3 children being cared for (including the minders own) Planning Permission won’t be needed.
2. Between 3 and 6 it is unlikely that Planning Permission would be needed but we would always suggest that any new childminder should apply for a Lawful Development Certificate to confirm the situation.
3. Over 6 children, Planning Permission is likely to be needed and the childminder should check with the Planning department.

Some councils don't apply these rules but all can if they want to.

**Amanda70** · 01-05-2015, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by blue bear

Are they enforcing because of planning regulations?

A quick google brought this up

Summary
The following rules can be set:
1. If there are less than 3 children being cared for (including the minders own) Planning Permission won’t be needed.
2. Between 3 and 6 it is unlikely that Planning Permission would be needed but we would always suggest that any new childminder should apply for a Lawful Development Certificate to confirm the situation.
3. Over 6 children, Planning Permission is likely to be needed and the childminder should check with the Planning department.

Some councils don't apply these rules but all can if they want to.

Thankyou this Is useful

**JCrakers** · 01-05-2015, 09:11 AM

What I don't get about this job is we are 'supposed' to be professional childcarers having to work to high standards. Ofsted are constantly telling up we are not good enough and pushing us to limits.
We have huge amounts of legislation and rules to adhere to and mass amounts of paperwork. We are supposed to educate the children and get them 'school ready'. We have to put up with parents who treat us badly sometimes and don't pay on time.
We love our jobs none the less

We are qualifying ourselves to the eyeballs, making sure we achieve an outstanding service, being flexible at times of need and looking after lives.

All this and a council cuts the amount of income someone can receive and tells them they have to apply for planning permission which is hundreds of pounds out of their hard earned wages. They wont apply because they cant afford it. If someone has 3 -4 children of their own under 16, which is not unheard of obviously, then they really are going to be working for less than peanuts.

To me there would be no point at all....I wonder if that's what they are trying to achieve?

**Amanda70** · 01-05-2015, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by JCrakers

What I don't get about this job is we are 'supposed' to be professional childcarers having to work to high standards. Ofsted are constantly telling up we are not good enough and pushing us to limits.
We have huge amounts of legislation and rules to adhere to and mass amounts of paperwork. We are supposed to educate the children and get them 'school ready'. We have to put up with parents who treat us badly sometimes and don't pay on time.
We love our jobs none the less

We are qualifying ourselves to the eyeballs, making sure we achieve an outstanding service, being flexible at times of need and looking after lives.

All this and a council cuts the amount of income someone can receive and tells them they have to apply for planning permission which is hundreds of pounds out of their hard earned wages. They wont apply because they cant afford it. If someone has 3 -4 children of their own under 16, which is not unheard of obviously, then they really are going to be working for less than peanuts.

To me there would be no point at all....I wonder if that's what they are trying to achieve?

I think you've hit the nail on the head, absolutely disgusting. To include your own children up to 16 is ridiculous, once they go to senior school they take care of themselves, always out with friends and certainly don't need to be in the numbers. It's just another money making exercise by the Council!!