i think ofsted have got it wrong re numbers

**dette** · 09-12-2011, 08:39 PM

well..its a bit complicated and long winded sorry
I,ve got 7 kids of my own the youngest ones are 3yr and 4yr old and one 4 year old mindee who is still in nursery.my 4 yr old is in reception class and my 3 yr old is in nursery school 3 hr a day.
My old certificate said i had 2 places in the early years.which i thought was ok seeing that my 4 year old is at school now and i have one 1 of my own in the early years.
At my inspection a couple of weeks ago Mrs O pointed out that i hadnt applyed for the"4 year old and at school" variation for my 4 year old. so i should have only had one on my certificate and not two.She said not to worry ,just phone ofsted and ask for the variation which would give me back my second early years space ...problem solved you would think.
New certificate arrived..stating i could have 3 early years children.plus my own 3 year old...this makes 4 ...not right i thought
I phoned ofsted to say i thought this was wrong.and pointed out that i have a 3 year old so couldnt have 3 mindees early years.they said they would check and ring me back.they did and said it is correct.i said " so you are telling me i can have 3 early years plus my own three year old" they said yes so i said thank you ...what do you think..This must be wrong

**jane5** · 09-12-2011, 08:45 PM

Yes this is wrong and quite common for Ofsted to give out the wrong information

I would chase it up because if you had more than your numbers and something happened, ofsted would say that you gave them the wrong information and it is your responsibility.

**dette** · 09-12-2011, 08:53 PM

Thats what i think ...I rang them 3 times until they sounded fed up of me.I stated it in clear language Quoting my new cert and telling them over and over but they insist that the department responsible have looked at it and it is correct !!!
Obviously it could be to my advantage to have 4 as i,ve got 2 early years starting full time in jan and will need my assistant but i know it must be wrong.

**nikki thomson** · 09-12-2011, 10:36 PM

I think ofsted have started early on the Christmas wine!!!!, I don't think that's right but I'm no expert in these things. Xx

**QualityCare** · 09-12-2011, 10:37 PM

I would write to them explaining again at least whatever reply they give you you will have in writing that way if anything did happen you have proof of what you told them and what they replied.

**Jiorjiina** · 10-12-2011, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by dette

Thats what i think ...I rang them 3 times until they sounded fed up of me.I stated it in clear language Quoting my new cert and telling them over and over but they insist that the department responsible have looked at it and it is correct !!!
Obviously it could be to my advantage to have 4 as i,ve got 2 early years starting full time in jan and will need my assistant but i know it must be wrong.

Phone them again and request that they send you a latter stating that the numbers are correct. Also, if you can, record the dates and names of people you spoke to at Ofsted.

If they're insisting they're right, you can't do much more than that apart from not filling your 'extra' space, which is entirely up to you, and at least you'll have some written proof that you aren't the one who got it wrong.

**Goatgirl** · 10-12-2011, 03:10 PM

Hi,
I'd just call once again and ask them to write in an email that you have queried the numbers and they have responded that they are correct. That way either they will realise there is a mistake or you are covered to legitimately care for the 4 under 5's without your assistant needing to be present at all times

best wishes,
Wendy

**AliceK** · 10-12-2011, 04:51 PM

Yes I would e-mail them. That way you have it on record and also their reply to keep on record.

xxxx

**funemnx** · 10-12-2011, 06:13 PM

It look like they have given you a variation to have 4 children under age 5 years - as long as you don't have 6 children under 8 years in total you should be fine to work on your own?

**dette** · 10-12-2011, 06:41 PM

I hope so coz thats a really handy thing to have ,i think everybody is right about getting it in writing .i,ll get onto that.my youngest is 4 in august and will start school september anyway .i wont be complaining if i get to keep the variation in the mean time though

**Mouse** · 10-12-2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by dette

well..its a bit complicated and long winded sorry
I,ve got 7 kids of my own the youngest ones are 3yr and 4yr old and one 4 year old mindee who is still in nursery.my 4 yr old is in reception class and my 3 yr old is in nursery school 3 hr a day.
My old certificate said i had 2 places in the early years.which i thought was ok seeing that my 4 year old is at school now and i have one 1 of my own in the early years.
At my inspection a couple of weeks ago Mrs O pointed out that i hadnt applyed for the"4 year old and at school" variation for my 4 year old. so i should have only had one on my certificate and not two.She said not to worry ,just phone ofsted and ask for the variation which would give me back my second early years space ...problem solved you would think.
New certificate arrived..stating i could have 3 early years children.plus my own 3 year old...this makes 4 ...not right i thought
I phoned ofsted to say i thought this was wrong.and pointed out that i have a 3 year old so couldnt have 3 mindees early years.they said they would check and ring me back.they did and said it is correct.i said " so you are telling me i can have 3 early years plus my own three year old" they said yes so i said thank you ...what do you think..This must be wrong

I think your inspector was wrong there in the first place. You don't have the 4 & 5yr olds in school clause to cover your own children. If they are in school you have your numbers increased by one, you don't have to have the clause on your certificate. I'd have said your certificate was right in the first place. The numbers on it only relate to minded children, so would have said "may care for no more than 2 in the Early Years age group". If your mindee then went to school, you would need the clause if you wanted to count them as a rising 5.

Then when your youngest is 4 and in full time school you would need to ask for it to be amended again to allow you 3 in the early years age group.

It must be so frustrating to keep being told it's right when it doesn't seem as if it can be. I don't see that it's a variation either as it would say may usually care for 2 in the EY age group, then would say these numbers could be increased following the variation request dated X and for the children named etc etc.

I would phone up again but word it differently. Don't give your details and just ask, if you have a 3yr old and a 4yr old of your own, how many minded children would you be allowed. Then when they say 2 EY children, say "right, can you explain why my certificate says X". I would also get them to check that they have all of your own children on their records. It's happened before that they've missed a child off, so the numbers are right according to the info they have, but are wrong because they haven't got all your children recorded.

**samb** · 11-12-2011, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mouse

I think your inspector was wrong there in the first place. You don't have the 4 & 5yr olds in school clause to cover your own children. If they are in school you have your numbers increased by one, you don't have to have the clause on your certificate. I'd have said your certificate was right in the first place. The numbers on it only relate to minded children, so would have said "may care for no more than 2 in the Early Years age group". If your mindee then went to school, you would need the clause if you wanted to count them as a rising 5.

Then when your youngest is 4 and in full time school you would need to ask for it to be amended again to allow you 3 in the early years age group.

It must be so frustrating to keep being told it's right when it doesn't seem as if it can be. I don't see that it's a variation either as it would say may usually care for 2 in the EY age group, then would say these numbers could be increased following the variation request dated X and for the children named etc etc.

I would phone up again but word it differently. Don't give your details and just ask, if you have a 3yr old and a 4yr old of your own, how many minded children would you be allowed. Then when they say 2 EY children, say "right, can you explain why my certificate says X". I would also get them to check that they have all of your own children on their records. It's happened before that they've missed a child off, so the numbers are right according to the info they have, but are wrong because they haven't got all your children recorded.

I actually had this on my cert when i first registered as my dd was about to start full time school and so they put it on and said they have to - didn't make a difference to my numbers anyway as I was originally only regsitered for 2 children in total but just saying that I had to have it for my own child.