Jumping the gun or has the wool been pulled over my eyes???

**nipper** · 19-10-2011, 09:40 AM

Morning all, I think unless I am very wrong that I might have just had the wool pulled firmly over my eyes.

I have an eight year old mindee whose mum works shifts, so I have him from 6.30/7am until I drop him off at school, then from 3.15pm until 8pm. Mum and I agreed a trail period of a month (just to make sure he was alright in my setting and I with him) at the start of term, which was due to finish this Friday in line with term dates, as half term begins then. Incidentally I only have him term time.

So, because mum had given me her shift times until last Monday 10th October and had said she would let me have the next months shift times well in advance (alarm bell number one) I didn't think anything of it as it was only a period of time from last Monday until this Friday and I would have been able to ask her for them because I see her at school on the days she doesn't work. However, on Monday 10th he didn't attend because the last session he came to me was on the Thursday of the previous week, when Mum asked to come in and talk to me when she collected him.

Without going into too much detail, she said she was finding things tough at work, wasn't enjoying it and was going to take some time off up until half term to be with her son. At no point did she say anything to suggest she or he for that matter was unhappy with the service I was providing. Later on that weekend she sent me a text message saying that on the Monday which was the last day I had had times for, he wanted to do an activity after school with mum, so there was no need for me to collect him after school.

Now, here's the twist...a while back the mindee was saying he and mum were going on holiday to America for a family celebration, but he said this would be in February. I didn't delve any further, just said 'Oh that will be nice' and I made a mental note to myself to follow this up nearer the time, as my contracts state half fees to keep the place open as if parents take children away during term time.

I then realised this morning (alarm bell number two) at school that I hadn't seen them since Monday morning. Now I might be jumping the gun but....she might have taken him on holiday, which accounts for the reason why he mentioned it so recently and what with half term being next week it could all add up.

So basically, for a period of about 5 days spanning last Monday to the end of this week, do you think I should have asked for her to pay a retainer. Each day alone brings in about £35 for me as I care for him outside my normal hours. She has paid all fees up until last Monday, doesn't owe me anything, but I'm just a bit miffed that I have essentially lost out on any days he would have attended since then. It would only have been about five days at the most but it would still amount to £150 or half of that if I had asked her to pay the retainer

My question is, how possible is it to prove what days he would have attended last week and this, as she works shifts and not set days?
I suppose I can't can I, unless she had written them down in response to my asking her to.

Message to self, make sure shift times are sought at least two weeks before last day with mindee is due to end.

Sorry for the complex post, I 'd be interested to gauge your opinions.

Pipsqueak · 19-10-2011, 09:58 AM

Sorry but for any child absences I charge FULL fees - counteracts this worry that you are describing.

Also I would be wanting the shifts at least a minimum of two weeks in advance with the hours she wants/is booking. And then if there are long periods of not being wanted - yes a retainer would be put in place.

**buzzy bee** · 19-10-2011, 10:02 AM

I do contracts for shift workers but I do a minimum number of hours - so I know I'll always get at least a certain amount a week.

And yes I charge full fees for their holidays.

I'd charge them - just add it to the next invoice you do.

Some parents are just so rude - they don't seem to realise that this is our business!!

**mummyMia** · 19-10-2011, 10:03 AM

It does sound a bit like she may have gone away on holiday. The comment about her saying that she is unhappy in her job made me also think that she might be thinking about quiting the job and not going back after the half term.

With a shift worker I would put a minimum number of hours in the contract per week. If the hours are not used then they would still need to be paid for. They can't be carried over to the next week. This way you would always be guaranteed some income.

**nipper** · 19-10-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

Sorry but for any child absences I charge FULL fees - counteracts this worry that you are describing.

Also I would be wanting the shifts at least a minimum of two weeks in advance with the hours she wants/is booking. And then if there are long periods of not being wanted - yes a retainer would be put in place.

As I say, she's paid up to date, but part of me is a little suspicious and thinks she has stalled giving me her next lot of shift hours, so she can wriggle out of this. I'm going to ring her up and ask her if he is coming back after half term and has she had her next lot of hours, so I can draw up a new invoice for her.

**nipper** · 19-10-2011, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by mummyMia

It does sound a bit like she may have gone away on holiday. The comment about her saying that she is unhappy in her job made me also think that she might be thinking about quiting the job and not going back after the half term.

With a shift worker I would put a minimum number of hours in the contract per week. If the hours are not used then they would still need to be paid for. They can't be carried over to the next week. This way you would always be guaranteed some income.

What would you suggest as a minimum number of hours?

**nipper** · 19-10-2011, 10:56 AM

I've just thought and this is a worst case scenario. I told her verbally at our initial meeting and it it is written into my contract that I require 4 weeks written notice from either party to teminate.

If she comes back to me and says she no longer requires my services, yet the 4 weeks still has to pass and I don't end up having to look after her son, where does that leave me money wise? Without a leg to stand on?

Pipsqueak · 19-10-2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by nipper

As I say, she's paid up to date, but part of me is a little suspicious and thinks she has stalled giving me her next lot of shift hours, so she can wriggle out of this. I'm going to ring her up and ask her if he is coming back after half term and has she had her next lot of hours, so I can draw up a new invoice for her.

Sorry didn't realise I hadn't put all of what I meant to post (duh!)

I charge for minimum hours with shift workers and take a deposit of 2-4 weeks based upon these minimum hours. Again this helps to reassure you and stops them leaving you in the lurch.

Pipsqueak · 19-10-2011, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by nipper

I've just thought and this is a worst case scenario. I told her verbally at our initial meeting and it it is written into my contract that I require 4 weeks written notice from either party to teminate.

If she comes back to me and says she no longer requires my services, yet the 4 weeks still has to pass and I don't end up having to look after her son, where does that leave me money wise? Without a leg to stand on?

She would stil have to pay the 4 weeks - your service is still available and she would be choosing not to use it.

**Mouse** · 19-10-2011, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

She would stil have to pay the 4 weeks - your service is still available and she would be choosing not to use it.

But if there are no minimum hours written in the contract, then there will be nothing to pay. If OP only charges for the hours mum gives her & mum gives her none, then without a retainer being agreed in the initial contract, there doesn't seem much she can do.

Pipsqueak · 19-10-2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Mouse

But if there are no minimum hours written in the contract, then there will be nothing to pay. If OP only charges for the hours mum gives her & mum gives her none, then without a retainer being agreed in the initial contract, there doesn't seem much she can do.

I would base it upon the hours she has already had/used. There is a papertrail I presume

**nipper** · 19-10-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

I would base it upon the hours she has already had/used. There is a papertrail I presume

Yes there is a paper trail. After our initial meeting I put together a letter outlining what the first months fees would look be (and kept a copy). She paid in full when we signed the contract and I gave her a receipt.

Incidentally, I have tried ringing home and mobile phones this morning but no answer. Have left messages asking her if she has her next shift dates so I can draw up next month's invoice.

**FussyElmo** · 19-10-2011, 12:24 PM

You say he is in a trial period - do you mean settling in? If so then she can give notice instantly and not come back.

Ring her and find out

**nipper** · 19-10-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by FussyElmo

You say he is in a trial period - do you mean settling in? If so then she can give notice instantly and not come back.

Ring her and find out

I would, but she's not answering her phones.

**nipper** · 29-10-2011, 06:38 PM

Sorry to reopen this thread but I'd like your opinions.
I saw mum just before the end of half term, and asked her if she would let me have her next lot of shifts. This was after she had replied to my text asking if the mindee was to be coming back after half term (only does term-time at present). She said she would drop them into me during half-term.

Another text message from me asking nicely for hours was sent on Wednesday, reply came saying she had been really ill, apologised and would drop them off sometime Thursday. By yesterday (Friday), I still didn't have them so I rang her up this morning, spoke to her and asked her nicely for them. She did sound rough on the phone, but assured me she would drop them off today.

It's now 7.30pm and she still hasn't given me the hours. I think she is forcing my hand and trying to get me to make the decision for her. On the contract it states that commencement of a full contract begins on Monday 31st and we are well enough out of the 'settling in' period for giving notice to matter anymore.
As stated in my initial post, she doesn't owe me any money, but I can't for the life of me see where this is heading.

Has anyone ever had to chase a parent for their hours?

Pipsqueak · 30-10-2011, 08:35 AM

[QUOTE=nipper;1002964]Sorry to reopen this thread but I'd like your opinions.
I saw mum just before the end of half term, and asked her if she would let me have her next lot of shifts. This was after she had replied to my text asking if the mindee was to be coming back after half term (only does term-time at present). She said she would drop them into me during half-term.

Another text message from me asking nicely for hours was sent on Wednesday, reply came saying she had been really ill, apologised and would drop them off sometime Thursday. By yesterday (Friday), I still didn't have them so I rang her up this morning, spoke to her and asked her nicely for them. She did sound rough on the phone, but assured me she would drop them off today.

It's now 7.30pm and she still hasn't given me the hours. I think she is forcing my hand and trying to get me to make the decision for her. On the contract it states that commencement of a full contract begins on Monday 31st and we are well enough out of the 'settling in' period for giving notice to matter anymore.
As stated in my initial post, she doesn't owe me any money, but I can't for the life of me see where this is heading.

Has anyone ever had to chase a parent for their hours?[/QUOTE]

Many times with various parents!

I does sound like she is being evasive.... however I would just send another text saying that you are doing your planning and would really appreciate her giving you the hours. Apologise for bugging her whilst she is ill but just point out that you need to keep your business ticking over blah blah...

then I would devise a required hours form that is at least 1 month and give this out to parent(s) saying that this is what you are now implementing etc