New tactic ?!

**buzzy bee** · 13-10-2010, 08:22 AM

Okay, so I have my 'crier' again today. He's been here 45 mins and I already need a glass of wine!!

I decided to try a new method of distraction and then ignoring the behaviour... the trouble is I feel a bit guilty cos I know it's mainly cos he misses his mum, but he also cries if one of the other boys (both under 1) touch him / take anything off him (which I always immediately give back so you'd think he'd learnt by now that he doesn't need to cry about it!!) It's exhausting. He's 17 months so old enough to try and communicate without crying over everything.

Anyway, I do feel a bit bad but have been trying it out. The second he stops crying I try and introduce him back in by saying "J, can you count the stars / can you put this block on the tower' etc etc. But the minute he has my attention he cries again.

I'm a bit concerned about the affect this is having on my own little one. The other baby doesn't seem bothered but mine just watches him and I don't want him to be thinking either 'my mummy is mean letting J cry' or 'oh so that's how you behave when you want something'.

Anyway, as my 'new tactic' didn't seem to be working, I have stuck on CBBs for 5 mins peace! they're all watching happily. Is this acceptable (as long as i don't do it all day!?)

Any advice is very welcome... is the ignoring thing a bit too cruel??

**JCrakers** · 13-10-2010, 09:04 AM

Sending big hugs to you as I have a screamer too and its exhausting. Its my 4th week of my 8m old screaming and Ive taken to the wine

As well as being tough on you it does unsettle the other children. How long has he been coming?

I think you are doing a great job and I too would ignore his crying. Try to be really enthusiastic with the others and he may realise the fun he is missing.
I would pop him in the buggy if he is being too much and bring him back in when he has calmed. When hes not crying give him lots of attention/praise and involve him as much as possible, then if he starts again, pop him back in the buggy or pop him to one side and carry on with the others.

It may take a while but I would stick with it.
If TV will calm him then let him watch a little as it may help him by sitting with the others and interacting with them without crying.

Everyone has their own ways of dealing with it so hope others have some good advice..Good Luck
Becky xx

**curlycathy** · 13-10-2010, 01:24 PM

At the risk of being shot down in flames - I found putting my screamer in the buggy did work when it was all too much. I was "over the top" enthusiastic about everything (probably think Hi-5 presenters on speed or something

) when he wasnt crying, second he started went in buggy to calm down. I also used the step for him to sit on "if you want to cry sit down there and then when you are ready come back and play" sort of thing.

IT DID WORK!!!

Obviously if there was something wrong then I didnt - but when you have a child who is screaming purely for attention - and this one would scream if I so much as looked away from him, even if I was still holding his hand - you need to do something. Its not cruel in my ever so humble opinion. Its cruel to other children, and the screamer in the long run, if all of your attention is solely focussed on one child at the expense of others. I now have a really lovely happy little boy - who was chattering on the phone to me at the age of 23 months last night cos he missed me after my day off sick bless him! We have a lovely bond and he can't wait to come. Must've done something right....

As for "teaching him that when he's upset no one comes to give him attention" - I think the point is that this little one is screaming when there is nothing wrong and is screaming for attention. Teaching him that not screaming will GET him attention is the way forward. In my ever so humble opinion

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted. It is hard work, and perserverance is the key. And ear plugs

Pipsqueak · 13-10-2010, 01:40 PM

Everyone does things differently and its a case of knowing the children in your care. Sometimes an overtired, over distressed child just doesn't want physical comfort and that can make them worse, likewise another child will get much worse if they aren't physcially comforted.

Sometimes there is a 'cruel to be kind' thing - if you have ruled out pain, illness, discomfort, all the usual things, all you can do is let them vent it out, preferably in a safe zone, close by.
I didn't see any reference to putting the child in a different room???? I have one child - he is not a cuddly child by any means (only ever on his terms) and his mum said to put him into the buggy and he will go to sleep. I thought awwww, that just seems a bit mean - so I gave him a snuggle - boy oh boy did I regret it. He does grumble sometimes when going down but even if I go and see him, he will just get worse - its something in his manner - that is his routine.

I see it as a child who has got into the habit of screaming and wailing for attention, if someone comes near them blah blah then all you can do is the let them ride it out until the habit is broken.

**curlycathy** · 13-10-2010, 01:42 PM

I dont think anyone has said "everytime he cries" put him in a buggy.

Those of us who have persisted with screamers/criers know the difference between a child who is crying because they are upset and need cuddles and reassurance and a child who has learned that crying gets attention (and therefore takes it away from others). I think the suggestion is to teach that crying doesnt get attention but not crying does.

I'm sorry but I do actually find the sentence "what a lovely caring atmosphere thats going to create for him" quite judgemental actually and I think that when minders come on here seeking support and advice it is important for us to be supportive, even if we have different views. I don't think anyone is necessarily right or wrong, and everyone has to find the way that works for them (and in some cases I know that has meant giving notice). I also think we should be mindful of the fact that typing answers, even with the use of the - er - gizmo thingies??? - can come across as being harsher than maybe intended.

To the op, I really hope you get it sorted. When a child has been coming to you and screaming and then suddenly it all clicks and they stop - it is soooooo worth it!!! xxxx

**funfunfun** · 13-10-2010, 01:57 PM

I have a baby screamer .

I think when you have a child in your home you have to be "prepared" for some amount of crying

Its going to happen " mayb they miss mum " " attention " and so on.

mindee i have at the mo , when i change bum because i have picked her up to do this when i have finished she will scream and scream because she wants to be picked up ......this isnt just at nappy change time its all the time

mindee wants constant attention and doesnt like it if she doesnt get it hence the screams .....I will leave mindee to cry for short periods as other mindees are there too and need attention . I dont mind reasureing and giving a cuddle but i wont constantlly molly coddle it wouldnt be fair on anyone .

I think also any amount of crying whilst other children are around could have a knock on effect "you cry i cry " type thing .

I suppose it all depends how long you have had the child in your care and how long you are willing to leave it before you cant take any more .

Hope it all works out for you

hugz xxxxx

**Mickey Mouse Clubhouse** · 13-10-2010, 02:07 PM

I had a screamer for 8 months and the only time he would stop is when he was in the pushchair or highchair and I am sorry but that is where he was most of the time as he just would not stop screaming. The only item he would stop is if I was carrying him which was not possible with 2 other children to look after. It never did him any harm and now he is one of the best little mindees I have he comes running in in the morning doesn't even bother to say bye to mum anymore.

This little one would come in screamer and shouting everyday I used to hate the thought of him coming but I just couldn't give notice as the parents were so nice and was trying everything as I was his 2nd minder and he was only 9 months when he came to me.

I don't feel bad and if that makes me a bad person then tough, as there is know why I could take 8 hours of screaming.

So hang on in there it will get better I promise. xx

**teacake2** · 13-10-2010, 02:08 PM

My new one actually asks to go in his buggy when he decides he has had enough of screaming for attention and has to wait a minute if I am dealing with one of the others. He was put in it at the other setting he attended when he wouldn't stop screaming and now associates it with his special place to go to calm down and have a think about things. (he is just 2).
Teacake2

**JCrakers** · 13-10-2010, 04:07 PM

Well its nice to know im not a totally cruel person...I dont see anything wrong with putting him in a buggy to have a bit of time.

Ive been looking after kids for 17yrs and have two of my own who are great kids (not scarred in anyway) I started off as an Nanny in London and ive worked with some fantastic families some of which I still keep in contact with.

**curlycathy** · 13-10-2010, 04:13 PM

I don't think you are cruel at all and totally agree with you.

And by the way - I've got a Screwfix Direct catalogue which has ear defenders in it - seriously considering it......

Take care xxx

**JCrakers** · 13-10-2010, 04:30 PM

The children I care for get a huge amount of love,cuddles and respect from me but at the same time I have rules and regulations that they must follow. Otherwise surely they will all be running round wrecking my house doing whatever they please. When they get to school they need to do as the teacher asks. I feel that adults must be in charge and discipline is vital...surely?
I dont think you can compare sitting an adult on the stair the same way as a child.
I used the buggy for a bit of time out as its a safe place...I can sit and listen to a baby crying all day but is it fair to put the other children through it?
When a baby cries should I pick it straight up? Is this the right way? How can I go through the day with a baby stuck to my side? Isnt it fairer for the child to be able to sit and play happily because it feels safe just sitting on the floor.

**Fabby** · 13-10-2010, 05:12 PM

My advice is NOT TO GIVE UP. I wouldn't give notice and i would persevere with it. I had a very crying baby and it was really starting to get me down. Now, he is great!! Ive never experienced this before has all my other children who have started have all settled straight away so this baby was a bit of challenge. He was 8 month when he started and he is now 11 month. It was only 2 weeks ago that he finally settled with me. The fact he only comes once a week really didnt help with the settling in. I can honestly say though now, he is a pleasure to look after. By putting the child in the pushchair can be a way of calming them down but obviously if they didnt stop crying or crying got worse then i would take them back out. After 1 hour of constant crying when he was dropped off, i too put baby in the pushchair and rocked him and he always ended up having a nap. I also gave lots of cuddles but also did not hold him 24/7 whilst he was here. I think all the things i have done have obviously helped with this child settling in. Mum is very happy and can see the massive difference when she drops him off. This morning he didnt even notice mum had left. Every child is different and you need to find a way thats best for them and you.

**buzzy bee** · 13-10-2010, 07:16 PM

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your responses!! I seem to have sparked a bit of a debate

I have him again tomorrow so will see how it goes. I guess I just need to give it time.

I really hope I can form a good relationship with him. At the moment he's so clingy to his mum the minute he walks in and the minute she picks him up cos he's so petrified of her leaving!! I try not to take it personally

It's very comforting to hear that it's quite common and that it improves tho - that gives me hope!

**buzzy bee** · 13-10-2010, 07:20 PM

I don't think I'll be putting him in a pushchair in another room... but it does seem like most people have said they'd keep ignoring the unwanted behaviour and praising the good behaviour...

I'm a very caring and tactile person and if a child is genuinely distressed I'll comfort them and give cuddles etc (which I do lots and lots when he's first left and I know he's missing mum), but when I know he's just crying because he took a toy from one of the others and I told him he couldn't do that, I'm not sure that giving him lots of attention for crying is the best tactic.

What would you suggest I do other than ignoring the behaviour? (Or sticking CBBs on LOL!)

**curlycathy** · 13-10-2010, 07:29 PM

Firstly I think that most people on here do take advice and constructive criticism well. We are all willing and eager to learn from each other. However, I think the key is "constructive" criticism and I'm sorry but you have come across on this thread (and another I've seen) as being quite judgemental and critical without fully thinking about what people are saying.

As far as I can see not one person has said, or suggested, that we put a child in a buggy/cot whatever "whenever" a child cries. Its to do with the nature of the crying and actually I think I could explain myself and my practices to an Ofsted inspector quite happily. I also think that the proof is when my (used to be a) screamer walks in my house beaming away, big hugs and barely a backward glance at his mother. She is happy with how I dealt with the situation and I worked in partnership with her all the way. I'm not putting in detail here what happened because frankly I don't want you to come back with something personal again. I think you seem to have it in your head that we just leave them to scream all the time alone, which I don't think is the case from anyone!

The minders who have posted on here all appear to have a GREAT deal of experience and did persevere with their screamers, who I do actually think benefit more from the childminding setting than they would in a nursery.

I just think there are as many different methods of working with children as there are children. If you have found that you are able to spend your whole day holding a child to prevent them screaming whilst at the same time cuddling, reading to, cooking, feeding, playing with, writing up diaries of, changing nappies, pottying, toileting, doing school/nursery runs - fantastic! Afraid most of us only have one pair of hands!!!!!!!

**JCrakers** · 13-10-2010, 07:40 PM

"I had a screamer who wasn't mobile at 8months and I literally had her sat on my lap for months. I gave notice in the end as it was too much for the other children and I couldn't leave her to cry."

I asked for some advice about my 8m old screamer and ive copied this quote from you above ...as you can see...that didnt work did it?

**buzzy bee** · 13-10-2010, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by curlycathy

I also think that the proof is when my (used to be a) screamer walks in my house beaming away, big hugs and barely a backward glance at his mother. She is happy with how I dealt with the situation and I worked in partnership with her all the way. I'm not putting in detail here what happened because frankly I don't want you to come back with something personal again. I think you seem to have it in your head that we just leave them to scream all the time alone, which I don't think is the case from anyone!

Do you think I should talk to his mum? She knows he cries a lot when she leaves but I haven't really mentioned the rest to her... it's tricky to say 'you're child screams when he doesn't get his own way!'

I probably should have done but i'm new to this and didn't wanna a) upset her and b) make her think i'm a bad choice and take him away (he's my main income!!) probably too late to say something now... ?

**JCrakers** · 13-10-2010, 07:59 PM

Do you have kids of your own Helen?
Not having a go...just curious

xx

**buzzy bee** · 13-10-2010, 08:00 PM

I've worked in nurseries and I think the one you mentioned sounds unique!! The ones I've worked in would never do this - more staff doesn't necessarily mean more time and attention - the opposite in my own experience!!

**buzzy bee** · 13-10-2010, 08:02 PM

This isn't the same as Controlled Crying with a young baby!! This is about a toddler who cries when he doesn't get his own way!

I just feel that if I give him lots of cuddles and attention when he cries then he'll get the wrong message - that crying is the way to get attention.