Help with difficult behaviour

[Caz-b]

Hi this is my first post so hello to everyone

I look after 2 brothers aged 2 and 4 and am having real problems dealing with their behaviour. They constantly fight each other, hitting, kicking etc which they have done in small doses since youngest started about a year ago. Have tried time out and taking toys away but doesn't seem to work. Parents are no help they just say that's what they do and as far as they concerned if I've dealt with it thru the day that's ok with them! Problem now is oldest one is attacking others (including his mum) and nursery have had words with me that he is doing it at nursery. Also when I'm explaining to them that hitting is wrong eldest one just laughs at me at turns his head to ignore me!!!

I'm at a loss as to how to manage their behaviour and have asked parents for their help but so far nothing. They make up about 95% of my income so do not want to lose them. Youngest is much better behaved while eldest one at nursery but eldest one was better behaved before youngest was born. I know it's probably case of siblings just fighting but when other children at toddler sessions etc are getting hurt something needs to be done, but what?

Thanks for reading and thanks for any suggestions

[Pipsqueak]

You need to get this knocked on the head now.

Firm, swift and consistent.

Go through some house rules and consequences with them.
Keep it simple, basic and positive.
We have kind hands and words for example.

Lots of praise for getting it right - sticker rewards, visual reward
Swift and firm discipline. Time out - 1 minute per year of life. Explain what has done wrong - during the time they are in time out.

Formal meeting with parents and explain that this is NOT what all siblings do and in YOUR setting this will not be tolerated, especially when other children are getting the raw end.
Parents need to be involved in the behaviour management plan - great if you can get nursery/school involved too - so you are all coming at it from the same angle.
Set small time limits to review and goals.
If parents won;t work with you, you may have to consider terminating the contract - you cannot have other children endangered and hurt. That might shock them into listening and working with you.

look for the positives and REALLY reinforce it with the parents and especially the children.

Don;t be afraid to be firm and implement rules.

When you are implementing rules - you say this has no effect on the child(ren) - why not do yu think? Think about eye contact, down to their level, your tone of voice, immediate intervention, meaning what you say, if they are messing around by getting out of time out then do you give in? You need to find what flicks their switch! Everychild has a switch.

If the child ignores you, then until they can listen to you then they can just darn well sit on the chair or step until they CAN listen. Gently use your hand to guide their face to look at you.

Remain calm and dignified at all cost.

[catswhiskers]

I have a sister and brother like this (but maybe not as bad) and tonight nearly came close to giving Mum notice but couldn't because they create so much and you can't talk over them and also have another parent to talk to!

I have been with the family for 3 and a half years and don't like to let them down but there's only so much stress me (and my own family) can take. I have tried everything but now feel I may have to text Mum tomorrow (my day off).

I feel terrible because there is a shortage of childminders and nurseries in my area and know she would be stuck but now I feel I have to put my own family first.

Sorry to rant but I have had a bad day!

[The Juggler]

i had two siblings, 11 months and just over 2 start. they didn't fight with each other all the time but had terrible falling on the floor tantrums if they didn't get what they wanted and were both very destructive.

Would swipe the whole smallworld off the table top, run or push trollies over all the toys on the floor and bounce off the sofas. It took a few weeks of consistent talking and explaining but they were like different childrne after that.

[Caz-b]

Thanks very much for help so far - it feels a bit better knowing I'm not the only one!!!

Pipsqueak - lots of advice thanks. Time out they will sit there and do and actually will stay there until I say they can go back and play but they just then go back and do exactly the same thing. Do get down to their level and am calm so will keep perservering. It seems whatever they play with turns into a weapon, jigsaws, cars, dressing up, duplo, play food etc. Every time I take something away they find another object to use as a battering ram or gun. Nursery staff have been brilliant and have discussed behaviour each day and have suggested approaching parents together if it doesn't improve. We do lots of praise when good behaviour or good painting etc but then they throw cars at each other or the eldest one sits on little ones face to stop him breathing! Luckily they were supervised and it was acted upon. Parents are really no help - they don't seem to have any common sense for example they play with the krooklok in the car when they come to and from my house swinging it round at each other!!!!

Every day seems like a losing battle as I tell them to not run in the house, to be kind to others etc but even when I'm sick of hearing my own voice they still carry on.

If I terminate contract will have to give up Childminding as only have one other child before and after school and work is pretty thin round here so that has to be a last resort. I'll see what monday brings and I might just tell them to see what effect it has on them!

Thejuggler thanks for your words, it's helpful to know it can get better and cats whiskers I share your pain let us know how you get on.

Ah well it's the weekend now so can put them out of my mind for 2 days

[Caz-b]

Just an update really -

Had a good week this week especially yesterday when both children were well behaved Looks like Dad has had chat with eldest one as he now has "challenges" - yesterdays was not to get any time outs at nursery. Nursery said he'd been really good and no time outs

Youngest had a couple of time outs but not for hitting/violence so fingers crossed it's starting to get better

Can see where they get their "ignoring me" behaviour from now tho - Mum picked up last night and before she came we'd been talking about how good they had been and how proud i was and what we were going to tell Mummy. She walks in talking on her mobile (work conference call thingy) & completely ignores them and me !!!! Bless them there they were trying to tell her about their day when she puts her fingers to her lips and turns away from them I help her out to the car with them and she kept on her call the whole time and didn't respond to anything they said to her or me for that matter. How rude I can't believe her!

Had to get that off my chest x

[Ripeberry]

Oh Caz that is awful, don't know how people can be like that Glad you've had a better time of it. Thank goodness the dad seems to have more time for them.

[Bananabrain]

You need to get this knocked on the head now.

Firm, swift and consistent.

Go through some house rules and consequences with them.
Keep it simple, basic and positive.
We have kind hands and words for example.

Lots of praise for getting it right - sticker rewards, visual reward
Swift and firm discipline. Time out - 1 minute per year of life. Explain what has done wrong - during the time they are in time out.

Formal meeting with parents and explain that this is NOT what all siblings do and in YOUR setting this will not be tolerated, especially when other children are getting the raw end.
Parents need to be involved in the behaviour management plan - great if you can get nursery/school involved too - so you are all coming at it from the same angle.
Set small time limits to review and goals.
If parents won;t work with you, you may have to consider terminating the contract - you cannot have other children endangered and hurt. That might shock them into listening and working with you.

look for the positives and REALLY reinforce it with the parents and especially the children.

Don;t be afraid to be firm and implement rules.

When you are implementing rules - you say this has no effect on the child(ren) - why not do yu think? Think about eye contact, down to their level, your tone of voice, immediate intervention, meaning what you say, if they are messing around by getting out of time out then do you give in? You need to find what flicks their switch! Everychild has a switch.

If the child ignores you, then until they can listen to you then they can just darn well sit on the chair or step until they CAN listen. Gently use your hand to guide their face to look at you.

Remain calm and dignified at all cost.

Just wanted to say Pip.
God you're good!!!!! Excellent advice as always. And you make me laugh.
I've got a 4 yr old that is doing similar and nursery are starting to get cheesed off too. Just had a conversation along the same lines. Consistency,consistency and I DO NOT negotiate with a 4 yr old.
I'm the adult and I say what is going to happen.

[gegele]

just to add to Pips

ask them before letting off the step why are they there for? what have they done? was it a good or bad thing? what should they have done?

i had 2 brothers, older than yours who just couldn't be left more than 10min to free play as it would always turn to fighting. try to use it as your advantage as a interest.

give the recycling to build a rocket or make a knight armure, search for hings about knights....

build a den, a secret house, a bomb shelter.....

draw a secret map, .....

[Caz-b]

To Gegele

During and after time out I do ask them why do they think they are on time out etc and they usually answer "I kicked a child" or "I've been running in the house" etc, we also talk about if it was a good thing or bad thing to do and that they are not going to do it again but then it all seems like it goes in one ear and out the other as the first thing they usually do when they go back to playing is the one thing they have just been on time out for!!!!!!

As for interests and stuff we are currently trying stuff like theme weeks with lots of making different things which they do love so hopefully things will get better.

Am on a behaviour management course on Monday night so that could be interesting, I'll see what they can advise as well x