re; please help bit of a variation question

[mushpea]

for those that read my last post...............

I rang ofsted today and explained the situation saying that i would have 7 under 8's 4 of them under 5 and did they allow variations like this, they said yes depending on circumstances,, i told them about not having more than 6 under 8 at anyone time and they said that this was wrong so i am going to apply anway and hope for the best.

how long do these variations normaly take?

[green puppy]

I thought it was wrong, I thought that was the whole idea of a variation! Very confusing though after you read the link that mouse posted, although my certificate still keeps my 3 5-8 space plus my 4 under 5 variation. Mine took 3 weeks from asking to my certificate arriving. Ofsted should decide after 14 days but they have back logs of a month. I requested mine in april for may.

[Mouse]

Well, I stand corrected then

I have always been told that you can't go above the maximum number of children you can care for (ie. 6 under 8s). I was told that the variation is to the conditions, not the over all numbers.

Have to be honest, I have never known anyone have 7 under 8s if they're working alone.

Green Puppy, does your certificate specify 3 children in the 5-8 range as well as 4 under 5's?

My variation took 3 weeks to come through, but that was with a lot of chasing.

[AliceK]

I emailed mine across and then called them after 3 weeks. The regulatory officer told me they have a backlog but he did it for me over the phone and my certificate arrived 2 days later.
Good Luck

xxxxx

[green puppy]

My certificate just says " may care for no more than 6 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 3 may be in the early years age group, and of these, not more than 1 may be under 1 year at any time. May exceed this ratio to allow 4 in the early years age group for the children named on the variation request of..................

Then states the date of request, days and times of variation and only applies to those named on it.

" When working with an assistant, may care for no more than 6 children under 8 years; of these not more than 6 can be in the early years age group, and of these not more than 2 can be under 1 year at any one time."

I haven't ever been told by ofsted when applying for variations that it cuts down your 5-8 bracket. Bit confusing really when they have that document aswell isn't it. Typical ofsted.

[Mouse]

My certificate just says " may care for no more than 6 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 3 may be in the early years age group, and of these, not more than 1 may be under 1 year at any time. May exceed this ratio to allow 4 in the early years age group for the children named on the variation request of..................

Then states the date of request, days and times of variation and only applies to those named on it.

" When working with an assistant, may care for no more than 6 children under 8 years; of these not more than 6 can be in the early years age group, and of these not more than 2 can be under 1 year at any one time."

I haven't ever been told by ofsted when applying for variations that it cuts down your 5-8 bracket. Bit confusing really when they have that document aswell isn't it. Typical ofsted.

You see, to me that reads you can only have 6 children in total. When it says you can exceed the ratio, that means the the proportion of children in the Early Years age group, not the overall total number.

[green puppy]

I see what you mean, but it also doesn't state that your other age bracket changes which is confusing, it only states this ratio may be exceeded which can be the ratio as a whole iyswim. I wonder if anyone has asked for an extra 5-8 space and been told they need to loose one of there under 5's? For example, if I cared for 3 in the 5-8's and then 4 under 5's- let's say I usually only ever have 3 of the under 5's at the same time, if one needed to extend day's, therefore me needing to accomodate all 4 of them on one or two days, this would be classed as continuity of care. So would ofsted only allow this if I gave notice to an over 5?

[Mouse]

Since EYFS came in your numbers aren't actually split into 0-5 and 5-8 ranges. You are told the maximum number of children you can look after (ie. 6) and told that not more than 3 of those can be in the EY range. If you wanted you could have all six children older than the EY age (ie. you could have 6 7yr olds if you wanted.) You wouldn't need a variation for that, but obviously you wouldn't be able to have any EY children if you had 6 older children.

I think this is one thing we'll have to agree to disagree on! I've always been told that you can't exceed your maximum number of children and I'll stick to that

[green puppy]

I know about the ages I meant it if you already cared for 3 under's and 3 over's. I wasn't getting into a disagreement, just trying to understand ofsted and their unclear rules!

[Mouse]

I know about the ages I meant it if you already cared for 3 under's and 3 over's. I wasn't getting into a disagreement, just trying to understand ofsted and their unclear rules!

I don't think we'll ever get a clear answer from Ofsted

I've been told you can't have more than 6 under 8's, but someone else has been told you can...typical Ofsted really

[loocyloo]

you can only have a total of 6 under the age of 8, unless working with an assistant!

i know this - i tried VERY hard to be occaisonally allowed 7 under 8 for a max of 2 hours once a week after school, for a term!

the guy i spoke to was great, and spoke to his managers and all sorts of people, but the bottom line was no more than 6 under 8's. i even tried asking if my DS or DD went to another minder, OR if my DH was home to care for them, could i have the extra child - no, not unless DH was registered as my assistant, as DS & DD come into my numbers regardless of whether they are with me or not!

(then, when working with an assistant, you MUST tell them, that you need to increase your numbers, otherwise they may not increase your numbers when working with an assistant! but you have to have enough physical room for the number of children you wish to have when working with an assistant!)

on the other topic under discussion - i have a variation for 4 in the early years group (not including those classed as rising 5's just to add to the confusion) but i can't have more than my 6 under 8's !

[mushpea]

I am sure the left hand dont know what the right hand is doing at ofsted!!
I will try for the variation and nearer the time and let you know what happens, i will only have 7 children for 40mins so am hoping but not too hopeful ifyswim

the other day i rang up about my certificate becasue i have a 4yrold starting school in september so i asked if i needed a different certificate, the chap said no not unless it was my own child,, when i rang to get a varation form i asked again and he said that once the child starts school I need to ring and tell them and they will add a statment to my certificate saying that i can still have this 4yrold and 3 others in the EY range, so which is right??

[mushpea]

LOOK!! zoomie just posted this on my orginal variation post and what a relif! being dippy me i was stressing over nothing but thanks for all your help though!

(Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoomie View Post
I understand about you needing the 4 under 5's, but how are you needing 7 over the age of 8 ?

At 8am you will have
18m
2y3m
2.5y
4y
7y

Then at 9am, after school run you will have
18m
3.5y
2y3m
2.5y



So I don't see you exceeding the 6 under 8's issue. 3.5y only comes 9am.)

oh yeah i had forgot that!! I do also have a 6ryold first thing but then thats still in my numbers! oh wow, thats brilliant, thanks you have taken a some of the weight off my mind, all i have to do now is hope they will allow the 4 under 5's during the day which i guess is more likley now!
wow thanks soo much

[miffy]

I agree with Mouse - you can only have a maximum of 6 under 8 at any one time.

It's quite clear in the EYFS handbook - Appendix 2 page 51 says

"Each childminder may care for:

a maximum of six children under the age of eight"

It then goes on to say about different age groups but it's very clear about the maximum number of under 8's.

Miffy xx

[christine e]

I agree with Mouse - you can only have a maximum of 6 under 8 at any one time.

It's quite clear in the EYFS handbook - Appendix 2 page 51 says

"Each childminder may care for:

a maximum of six children under the age of eight"

It then goes on to say about different age groups but it's very clear about the maximum number of under 8's.

Miffy xx

Agree entirely with Mouse and Miffy - I was told by Ofsted that under no circumstances could the 6 under 8's be increased unless working with an assistant.

Cx

[mushpea]

I honestly think that the people at ofsted dont know what they are doing,,, several times just latley i have rang about somthing and have been told one thing only to ring back and ask again and be told another!
i was told i can use my new conservatory and just to send off the risk assesment, then when i rang again to get the form for this they said i cant use it untill they say so,, then i was told i wouldnt need a cerftificate change when the 4yrold goes to school and then told later that i would and now this thing with the under 8's!!! its all so confusing when you ring them .

[green puppy]

I think that this forum should be the governing body for childminders! Everybody knows so much more than ofsted and explains things in a more sensible way! Mushpea, I am sure you will get your variation.