Advice please

[sarah707]

A member who wishes to remain anonymous has asked me to ask advice on her behalf.

She says she cares for a young boy who has started exposing himself to her daughter (4).

First time it happened she explained it wasn't appropriate to do that. Taking clothes off was for bath time/getting changed and shouldn't be part of a game.

Today he sat under the table with her daughter and said they were playing mummy and daddy.

When she went to sit with them the mindee told her to go away it was their game and was quite angry towards her interrupting them.

She distracted him by asking them to come out and clean the rabbit out.

Later they were having quiet time in the afternoon and she watched him try and get her daughter to lay across him.

She is confused as to whether this is a little boy coming to terms with growing up or something she should be worried about.

I have already suggested she speaks to the boy's mum and keeps a written record of everything that is happening.

I wondered if any of you guys had any words of wisdom.

[ajs]

how old is the little boy

[Curly Quavers]

Yes how old?

I also think write everything down and speak to the mum.

[miffy]

how old is the little boy

I would like to know that too and how long has this been happening for and what was the child's reaction when she told him it wasn't appropriate behaviour?

Miffy xx

[TammyN]

i would also ask how old as this could determine whether it is coming of age and discovering stage or something abit more for concern?
i too would record any incidents with time, date and details and again reinforce what is acceptable behaviour reguarding setting/play ideas.
if i had a concern i would contact my cm coordinator for advice maybe she could ask there?

[sarah707]

Sorry he is 4!

The child's reaction was to look away... there is some concern about (as yet undiagnosed) autism.

Mum's reaction so far has been to deny there is any issue.

[charleyfarley]

I once came across several children watching 2 other children pretending to have sex age 6 and 8, bottom half of clothing pulled completely down in a neighbours shed (parent at work). I was so shocked to put it mindly, it was several years ago and ss then.

I wasn't minding any of them but I did go and tell the boys mom to let her know what had been going on. The girl (8 year old) had seen it on tv and decided to copy it!!!!

How old is the child?

Carol xx

[Pipsqueak]

I agree with what you have said Sarah, talk to the parents - make it a formal but friendly discussion, getting across to them that this is a serious chat. Recording incidents that occur.

The minder can take advice from the NSPCC and/or NCMA safeguarding team both are very helpful.

This lads behaviour is concerning but it could also be totally innocent, however i think the key here is persistant and repeated behaviour and the concern for her daughter. I would keep the boy within sight and sound at all times, if the minder has to leave the room, the so does the boy. keep firmly but gently reiterating that clothes need to remain on etc. Age 4 (to me) does seem a little early to be exploring each others genders (the awareness of it) and the reaction of the boy when the minder tried to join in perhaps raises a slightly higher concern with me as well plus getting the daughter to lie across him. That is not really a normal playing mummy and daddy game - perhaps he has seen something he shouldn;t have done??? Like walked in on parents?

[Curly Quavers]

I am really sorry to say and I know some may think I am harsh but I would give notice children are not children long enough and she needs protected.

[flora]

I agree with what you have said Sarah, talk to the parents - make it a formal but friendly discussion, getting across to them that this is a serious chat. Recording incidents that occur.

The minder can take advice from the NSPCC and/or NCMA safeguarding team both are very helpful.

This lads behaviour is concerning but it could also be totally innocent, however i think the key here is persistant and repeated behaviour and the concern for her daughter. I would keep the boy within sight and sound at all times, if the minder has to leave the room, the so does the boy. keep firmly but gently reiterating that clothes need to remain on etc. Age 4 (to me) does seem a little early to be exploring each others genders (the awareness of it) and the reaction of the boy when the minder tried to join in perhaps raises a slightly higher concern with me as well plus getting the daughter to lie across him. That is not really a normal playing mummy and daddy game - perhaps he has seen something he shouldn;t have done??? Like walked in on parents?

ditto x x

hope this gets resolved, it always such a tricky one

[singlewiththree]

My 4 yr old mindee flashed my DD the other day which embarassed my 5yr old DD however that is a one off incident and his mum came down on him like a ton of bricks, don't think he will be doing that again.

This is more serious in my opinion as he knows its wrong enough to not do it in front of you.

[The Juggler]

when this sort of things happen the first thoughts I have is why is it happening. Unfortunately some children are exposed accidentally or intentionally to inappropriate TV/books at a young age so as others have said it could be totally innocent, like the children re-enacting the 'sex' scene.

However, the fact that he is getting the daughter to lie on him and getting angry at being watched/caught indicates more than just playful re-enacting and would ring serious alarm bells for a 4 year old. I know of children with really seriuosl/heavy masturbating urges at 3 and 4 who have grown into very normal 7, 8 year olds (in terms of sexual behaviour). However, if he has such strong urges, it begs the questison why he wants to involve someone else in this 'play'.

I think I would advise mum that this is NOT normal and that I would need to note it and that you recommend she speak to a health visitor asap.