NCMA answer on termination of contract

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 02-11-2009, 10:16 AM

I sent this email to NCMA and was told to ring the legal line.

Hello

Could you clarify a point please.

If a parent does not pay you on time is the contract broken and can care stop immediately?

If we stop caring can the parent sue us for breach or contract and loss of earnings?

Thank you

Debbie Southern

This is what they said:

"If the parent does not pay then they are in breach of contract and you can stop care immediately. However, if you do you cannot claim the notice period."

It was also suggested that if this had to go to court then a notice be given as warning before terminating completely.

The parents CAN NOT sue for loss of earnings or anything else as they are in breach of contract.

Hope that clears it up.

**sarah707** · 02-11-2009, 10:19 AM

Their position has obviously changed...

Although they are saying that if you need to go to court to claim unpaid fees then you must have followed the terms and conditions of your contract... which include working your notice period I would think..

That is brilliant thank you Debbie.

**nell57** · 02-11-2009, 10:22 AM

Thanks for this info

**Pudding Girl** · 02-11-2009, 10:22 AM

About time the NCMA started talking commonsense and in support of the CMs.

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 02-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by sarah707

Their position has obviously changed...

Although they are saying that if you need to go to court to claim unpaid fees then you must have followed the terms and conditions of your contract... which include working your notice period I would think..

That is brilliant thank you Debbie.

You wouldn't have to work your notice as there isn't a contract - parent broke it

**Hebs** · 02-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by DebbieS26

I sent this email to NCMA and was told to ring the legal line.

Hello

Could you clarify a point please.

If a parent does not pay you on time is the contract broken and can care stop immediately?

If we stop caring can the parent sue us for breach or contract and loss of earnings?

Thank you

Debbie Southern

This is what they said:

"If the parent does not pay then they are in breach of contract and you can stop care immediately. However, if you do you cannot claim the notice period."

It was also suggested that if this had to go to court then a notice be given as warning before terminating completely.

The parents CAN NOT sue for loss of earnings or anything else as they are in breach of contract.

Hope that clears it up.

yeahy about time

so if we want to terminate due to unpaid fees (ie a week) we can refuse the child and cut our losses??

thats better than working another 4 weeks where the parent most likely isn't going to pay up and have the stress of going to court

**brightstar** · 02-11-2009, 10:43 AM

I'd take them to court out of principle, I don't do freebies

Pipsqueak · 02-11-2009, 11:02 AM

Well done Debbie for getting clarification of that

its about time NCMA stood up for the people they are representing.

Think I might email them and get written clarification of that myself and put it in my P&P's

**cuffleygirl** · 02-11-2009, 11:17 AM

Yes, thanks Debbie for taking the time clarify that one - much appreciated!

**Daftbat** · 02-11-2009, 11:48 AM

I am glad that they seem to have seen sense. I always thought that a parent was in breach if they didn't pay on time and therefore it wouldn't stand up in court if they tried to sue me for loss of earnings.

Pipsqueak · 02-11-2009, 12:00 PM

ooh heck - this is going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. Who did you speak to Debbie?

I have just spoken to the legal team to get emailed written clarification of this (so I have it in my records) and what she has verbally told me:

it depends on the amount - depends on the district judge - if the amount is not considered sufficient to merit terminating or withdrawing care then you (the minder) could be considered in breach of contract as it would cause undue pressue on the parent. No-one can say for sure what any specific judge will say or do and NCMA do not advise this route. If the amount is sufficient then you could say you are mitigating your losses.

I am just awaiting for email confirmation of what the lady has told me and I will post it asap

**David Sheppard** · 02-11-2009, 12:27 PM

Just a word of warning to anyone who thinks about taking a parent to court for unpaid fees. From personal experience, it can be a very long, frustrating process stretching out to a year or more. You may well find, as I did, that you win a County Courts Judgement against the parent and you have your case upheld -BUT and this is a big BUT - they are not forced to pay you any of the outstanding fees. To get that requires another, separate, legal process after you have reached the stage of the courts finding in your favour and even then you are not guaranteed to recoup any money. They can, and probably will, plead that they have no money to satisfy your outstanding fees and the courts do not then force them to pay!

Sorry to negative about this very positive piece of news, but the reality of the courts is somewhat different, in my experience, to the knowledge of having the law on your side.

Regards

David

**Hebs** · 02-11-2009, 12:35 PM

yes david i agree,

this is why i'm considering switching to MM

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 02-11-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

ooh heck - this is going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. Who did you speak to Debbie?

I have just spoken to the legal team to get emailed written clarification of this (so I have it in my records) and what she has verbally told me:

it depends on the amount - depends on the district judge - if the amount is not considered sufficient to merit terminating or withdrawing care then you (the minder) could be considered in breach of contract as it would cause undue pressue on the parent. No-one can say for sure what any specific judge will say or do and NCMA do not advise this route. If the amount is sufficient then you could say you are mitigating your losses.

I am just awaiting for email confirmation of what the lady has told me and I will post it asap

Care should only be witheld if it was a significant amount of money and not for a smaller ratio of payment. i.e. if the parent had a bill for £750 and paid £700 you should not terminate and again if the parent had a bill for £1000 and you agreed to a payment of £500 immediately and £500 in 2 weeks then you would only terminate servies if the 2nd payment of £500 was not paid

These are the words and examples of the NCMA legal line, along with the advice that if you have a problem CALL THEM FIRST before taking any action

Pipsqueak · 02-11-2009, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by DebbieS26

Care should only be witheld if it was a significant amount of money and not for a smaller ratio of payment. i.e. if the parent had a bill for £750 and paid £700 you should not terminate and again if the parent had a bill for £1000 and you agreed to a payment of £500 immediately and £500 in 2 weeks then you would only terminate servies if the 2nd payment of £500 was not paid

These are the words and examples of the NCMA legal line, along with the advice that if you have a problem CALL THEM FIRST before taking any action

Debbie I did not mean to override you at all - I just thought I would get clarification so that I could put it in my folders.

The woman I talked to said £100 isn't a significant amount of money but could not tell me what would be considered 'significant'.

**sarah707** · 02-11-2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by DebbieS26

CALL THEM FIRST before taking any action

Perhaps this is the best advice to be giving people then?

It will definitely clear up any uncertainty.

If members ask about anything to do with termination of contracts for non payment... we should advise them ring their insurance company before doing anything.

What do you think guys?

Thank you Debbie and Pip for the sleuthing x

**The Juggler** · 02-11-2009, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

Well done Debbie for getting clarification of that

its about time NCMA stood up for the people they are representing.

Think I might email them and get written clarification of that myself and put it in my P&P's

yeah! well done Debbie. It did seem back to front before. that's great news that they are backing us on this point now.

TheBTeam · 02-11-2009, 07:30 PM

Thanks Debbie and others, as said it is about time there is some support for us not having to continue to care with fees unpaid, if i was a builder and didn't get paid for bits as agreed I wouldn't carry on!

**nannymcflea** · 02-11-2009, 07:45 PM

The most annoying thing is that NCMA is judging us on what they feel is "significant"...they say £100 is not enough to withhold your services...it may not be "significant" to them sat in their happy offices 9-5 but for a single childminder whose every income matters it is blooming "significant"

sorry,rant over.

**Minstrel** · 02-11-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by nannymcflea

The most annoying thing is that NCMA is judging us on what they feel is "significant"...they say £100 is not enough to withhold your services...it may not be "significant" to them sat in their happy offices 9-5 but for a single childminder whose every income matters it is blooming "significant"

sorry,rant over.

This is exactly what i was about to say!

Rant away