I'm having problems with being paid by one mother

**knotty** · 31-10-2009, 04:06 PM

Hello Everyone,

I'm a childminder, ofsted registered & inspected, and have been for 3 years. At the moment I have 3 children. Two of the children are 1 or 2 days, the 3rd child is 4 days a week, 7.30am to 6pm.

The problem is the mother of child 3. Basically she has been falling behind in payments for the last few months until she is now 6 weeks behind and owes approximately £1300. I understand you'll all say I shouldn't have let it get to this, but the excuses she comes up with are so believable that it seems to have happened all too easily. It's now becoming clear that this mother is taking advantage of my good nature / flexibility.

So this morning I had a chat with my husband and decided this situation must be dealt with head on. The mother has promised she'll be here today with the full amount, but she won't be, like she wasn't last week, or the week before.

I want to put her on a months "notice" as stated in the contract, but my husband wants me to remove all services as from Monday morning as another month not being paid will just mean chasing yet more money, and will hopefully mean this mother will see sense and stop taking advantage. I personally think that simply stopping looking after child 3 will mean I'll never see the money. It's just all round a very difficult and awkward situation, it's on my mind constantly now.

I said I'd post on here to get some advice on this situation, and my husband agreed, so here it is. Any advice is welcome, any questions will be answered.

**sarah707** · 31-10-2009, 05:36 PM

Hello and welcome to the forum!

You are in a difficult position and I know how hard it is.

Unfortunately, if you follow your husband's advice and terminate the contract immediately, you are in breach of the terms of your contract and the parent could quite legally sue you!

You must follow what your contract says you will do ... write a letter... wait the required length of time... write another letter... involve your insurance company... and keep providing care for the child.

I hope this helps and the situation is resolved quickly for you.

**Jemima77** · 31-10-2009, 05:47 PM

hello. I cant really offer advice as i am in the same situation as you. I have 2 part time children and the one that is fulltime is the one I am not being paid for. I know how you are feeling as it is just one excuse after another and really it should be one months notice and seek other childcare. I am going to get tough now as mum not had her student grant yet but she still hasnt offered me any money of her own to keep me going. At the end of the day we are not a charity and are doing this as a business. If the other mums are paying on time and a month in advance then why shouldnt she???? Just wish I could be tougher but like you I feel that if I do terminate the contract asap then I wont see any money for my last 2 months work!!!! Good Luck. I am hoping to get it all sorted by next week but lets see x x

**miffy** · 31-10-2009, 05:49 PM

Hi and welcome.

I understand both yours and your husband's point of view and whilst I agree with you that withdrawing care for the child will almost definitely mean you won't see any of the money you're owed, if it was me I wouldn't want to let any further debt build up either.

I'd contact the parent and ask for payment up front from now on - we are at the beginning of the month so they should have some wages - and then you need to sit down with this parent and work out how they are going to pay off the arrears.

If you are an NCMA member I'd contact them for advice if you want to terminate the contract - I believe another forum member has been told by the NCMA recently that it is OK to terminate the contract immediately in these circumstances. This was over the telephone and personally I'd be very careful to make sure I'd done everything correctly or, like Sarah said, you can find yourself in trouble.

Good luck - hope you get something sorted out

Miffy xx

**Hebs** · 31-10-2009, 05:50 PM

who are you insured with??

i'm sure someone said NCMA said they could stop care until paid, best ring and check forst cos like Sarah says it's a very grey area and you have to be very careful

**Trouble** · 31-10-2009, 06:08 PM

NCMA told me that the first day the parent doesnt pay the contract is broken on their part and legally you dont have to have their child until they pay

to be polite tell then in a letter 1 weeks notice as grace if not paid then you will either get in touch with ncma and take proceedings or contract is finished????????

**Pudding Girl** · 31-10-2009, 06:41 PM

How can you breach a contract that's already been breached by non payment? you can't is the answer!

They could technically sue you yes, anyone can sue anyone for anything, but I doubt they'd even know that and also they wouldn't get very far once the story came out.

I'd be refusing care. Don't let them build up another penny debt.

**nikim** · 31-10-2009, 06:49 PM

is she paying you anything at all towards the debt ? if she is i dont think you can terminate immediatly as already mentioned and like you say you will then be very unlikley to get any money, could you suggest to her that she needs to pay you weekly in advance starting mon plus extra to pay off the debt , failing that write to her stating that you have now sought legal advice and give her 7 days to pay the amount in full or at least some of it , you can also go through the small claims court for a fee of £35 and if your with m&m im sure you can hand the debt over to them and they will give you the money and recover the money themselves (but dont quote me on that) good luck i know how you feel i once had a similar situation and took a parent to the small claims court, they thankfully paid up as soon as they received the court letter , its not a nice situation to be in especially when youve built up a relationship with the child good luck i hope you get it sorted for your sake ,

**knotty** · 31-10-2009, 07:03 PM

Thanks for all of your advice. As I have already received a couple of small amounts so far from her I will contact Morton Michel and see what they suggest. As much as I no longer feel I should childmind her daughter free of charge, I will ask her Monday for cash weekly in advance and then see if we can come to some agreement for her to repay me asap. Even when I finally do receive the full debt (which I don't think will happen but I live in hope) I am going to give a months notice as I cannot chance this happening again. I will keep you all updated. Thanks again.

**mushpea** · 31-10-2009, 07:57 PM

I have been in this situation and the parent owed me nearly 1000 pounds and the ncma adviced to work out my notice period becasue if not i would be in breech of contract and they wouldnt be able to help me recover monies owed. in my case the parent was paying nothing each week so i terminated contract on a friendly basis stating that when all payments owed were payed they were welcome back.
in your situation you may be better off adding a bit extra on to her weekly bill so she slowly pays you back. or you can do what i did. but do not refuse childcare as you will be unlikly to get qanything back. very wrong i know as they breached contracts first but thats how it seems ot work.

**zillervalley** · 31-10-2009, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by nikim

is she paying you anything at all towards the debt ? if she is i dont think you can terminate immediatly as already mentioned and like you say you will then be very unlikley to get any money, could you suggest to her that she needs to pay you weekly in advance starting mon plus extra to pay off the debt , failing that write to her stating that you have now sought legal advice and give her 7 days to pay the amount in full or at least some of it , you can also go through the small claims court for a fee of £35 and if your with m&m im sure you can hand the debt over to them and they will give you the money and recover the money themselves (but dont quote me on that) good luck i know how you feel i once had a similar situation and took a parent to the small claims court, they thankfully paid up as soon as they received the court letter , its not a nice situation to be in especially when youve built up a relationship with the child good luck i hope you get it sorted for your sake ,

I agree with what you have said, I also was in the same position but didnt take parent to small claims court, and I must admit I regret that. The parent left of her own accord owing me the money, dont let that happen to you

**AliceK** · 01-11-2009, 09:26 AM

Hi
My MM contracts states on page 1 of part 1 that "you will pay the fees for me to look after your child as agreed in this contract. You accept that if you do not do so I will not be able to look after your child until all fees are paid"

It also says in Part 2, page 2 that "I will also be entitled to suspend my care of your child until the amount due has been paid and / or terminate our contract"

Personally I wouldn't let the parent build up any more debt and they would have to pay a substantial amount of the debt tomorrow or I would be suspending care and getting legal advice from MM.

Good luck

xxxxx

**Erika** · 01-11-2009, 05:02 PM

I don't know where NMCA get their ideas from but in contract law, when a contract is broken, it is broken. The parent has broken it by not paying the agreed fee.

You are offering a service on the contractual condition that the set fee is paid for that service. Unless the contract specifically states that you won't withdraw care if fees remain unpaid, or will work notice for every eventuality, you are within your right to withdraw the care.

She cannot make a claim for breach of contract where the agreement has already been penetrated by her, unless there is a clause within that contract which indicates that you will work notice despite non payment. She could submit a claim otherwiese but that claim would need to carry grounds, such as a claim for lost wages in the event that your termination of the contract has resulted in her having to take time off work to seek alternative care. If that happens, you can submit a counter claim for non payment. And a claim for loss of wages will not look very good in front of a court when she has cost you your income and that was the reason for withdrawing the care.

**nokidshere** · 02-11-2009, 01:19 AM

I would terminate the contract with immediate effect.

And this is why I always get paid in advance!

**manjay** · 02-11-2009, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Erika

I don't know where NMCA get their ideas from but in contract law, when a contract is broken, it is broken. The parent has broken it by not paying the agreed fee.

You are offering a service on the contractual condition that the set fee is paid for that service. Unless the contract specifically states that you won't withdraw care if fees remain unpaid, or will work notice for every eventuality, you are within your right to withdraw the care.

She cannot make a claim for breach of contract where the agreement has already been penetrated by her, unless there is a clause within that contract which indicates that you will work notice despite non payment. She could submit a claim otherwiese but that claim would need to carry grounds, such as a claim for lost wages in the event that your termination of the contract has resulted in her having to take time off work to seek alternative care. If that happens, you can submit a counter claim for non payment. And a claim for loss of wages will not look very good in front of a court when she has cost you your income and that was the reason for withdrawing the care.

Sounds like you very much know what you are talking about

and of course this absolutely makes sense. Have to say this "advice" from NCMA has been one of my main concerns with them although I too am sure that someone on here was given advice to the contrary last week. Touch wood I have only had one incidence of late payment and I think I must be pretty scary as Mum added the late payment fee on without being asked

but I would have no hestitation in withdrawing care if I wasn't being paid.

**sarah707** · 02-11-2009, 08:32 AM

It seems there are lots of different opinions on this one!

I am going from information an Ncma member posted on the forum some time ago... taken from an email from Ncma.

I wonder if one of their members could re-ask the question and get an updated response please??

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 02-11-2009, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by knotty

Thanks for all of your advice. As I have already received a couple of small amounts so far from her I will contact Morton Michel and see what they suggest. As much as I no longer feel I should childmind her daughter free of charge, I will ask her Monday for cash weekly in advance and then see if we can come to some agreement for her to repay me asap. Even when I finally do receive the full debt (which I don't think will happen but I live in hope) I am going to give a months notice as I cannot chance this happening again. I will keep you all updated. Thanks again.

I can see where you are coming from but why terminate if you can come to an agreement which you can both stick to?

Seems a shame that the child should suffer because of your good nature and mums non payment.

**Pudding Girl** · 02-11-2009, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by DebbieS26

I can see where you are coming from but why terminate if you can come to an agreement which you can both stick to?

Seems a shame that the child should suffer because of your good nature and mums non payment.

Why should the OP suffer though? Why should they have to scrimp and save? Why should they have this stress? Sounds reading further post down that an agreement of sorts was reached as she was making some payments to the OP - but this has obviously gone by the wayside and reached breaking point.

Sorry Debbie but your ideals really do annoy me sometimes!!