Free childcare and EYPP funding...when does your LA pay you?

Simona · 14-11-2015, 10:02 AM

I am trying to find out the different arrangements/contracts/conditions cms have with their LA regarding payment of 15 Hours funding and EYPP.

Is your funding paid in arrears for the 15 hours of free entitlement?...or in advance?

If you access EYPP funding for eligible 3/4 year olds when is this paid?
is EYPP paid alongside the 15 hours or a separate payment altogether?

The EYPP is paid to 'close gaps' in children's learning...if paid in arrears do you subsidise it?
how will you evidence it to Ofsted if you have not received the money?

Has any cm raised concerns about the 'payment in arrears' with their LA...if so were you successful in getting the conditions changed in your contract?

Thank you

**BallyH** · 14-11-2015, 10:39 AM

My funded hours are calculated and then divided by 4 payments over the 4 months. The last payment is sometimes adjusted when my 'actuals' are calculated. I get paid at the end of the month for the month worked. This is very typical of a lot of my long standing mindees contracts so I am use to it.

**BallyH** · 14-11-2015, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by MOH

My funded hours are calculated and then divided by 4 payments over the 4 months. The last payment is sometimes adjusted when my 'actuals' are calculated. I get paid at the end of the month for the month worked. This is very typical of a lot of my long standing mindees contracts so I am use to it.

Forgot to mention, no EYPP payments here.

**Mouse** · 14-11-2015, 12:32 PM

I don't have any children who qualify for EYPP so have no experience of that.

For normal funding I submit an estimate a couple of months in advance. So for spring term (starting January), I have already had to submit my estimates. I'll then get paid 60% of the estimated hours before the start of spring term. In February I will submit my "actual" figures and will receive the remaining 40% (allowing for any adjustments) towards the end of the term, so March time.
For next term I'll be paid in advance for approximately 7 weeks, them in arrears for the remaining 4 weeks.

To be honest, it works OK for me as I have other children not on funding so I have a regular income from them. The balance of 40% at the end of the term is almost like a bonus as I don't include the funding amount in my weekly/monthly calculations. I would imagine it's much harder for larger settings or childminders who have more funded children for longer hours (non of mine have the full 15 hours with me).

**loocyloo** · 14-11-2015, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by MOH

My funded hours are calculated and then divided by 4 payments over the 4 months. The last payment is sometimes adjusted when my 'actuals' are calculated. I get paid at the end of the month for the month worked. This is very typical of a lot of my long standing mindees contracts so I am use to it.

same here, and also no EYPP paid here.

I have to submit my estimates before the end of the previous term, then, I have to confirm my funded hours by 'headcount' day (usually a couple of weeks into the term)

**Kiddleywinks** · 14-11-2015, 03:48 PM

No EYPP as yet

Submit estimate
Receive 50% at the start of term (Based on submitted estimate)
Submit headcount
Receive balance +/- any adjustments towards the end of term (This term, we're due end of November)

**chris goodyear** · 14-11-2015, 04:57 PM

Same as Mouse and loocyloo.

Simona · 14-11-2015, 09:02 PM

Thank you so much for your replies.

May I ask those who say 'no EYPP' here whether this means you have no 'eligible' children you can draws the 53 p for ...or is it your LA which has no system in place to access EYPP?

My thinking is this..when children are in school there is no way the school can be shortchanged as the parents cannot suddenly move to another school...well it can happen but less frequently
so their funding is guaranteed for the 15 hours and EYPP
with a cm...a parent can give notice in the middle of the term by moving their child elsewhere...and we can lose funding which we may have to refund to the LA

Sorry if not clear but I think we are at a disadvantage because parents are not bound to stay with us.

Thanks again and you do not have to name your LA ...just say what your experience is.

**BallyH** · 14-11-2015, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

Thank you so much for your replies.

May I ask those who say 'no EYPP' here whether this means you have no 'eligible' children you can draws the 53 p for ...or is it your LA which has no system in place to access EYPP?

My thinking is this..when children are in school there is no way the school can be shortchanged as the parents cannot suddenly move to another school...well it can happen but less frequently
so their funding is guaranteed for the 15 hours and EYPP
with a cm...a parent can give notice in the middle of the term by moving their child elsewhere...and we can lose funding which we may have to refund to the LA

Sorry if not clear but I think we are at a disadvantage because parents are not bound to stay with us.

Thanks again and you do not have to name your LA ...just say what your experience is.

I have no 'eligible' children for EYPP. But I know my LA do have a system in place as I went to an evenings training on it.

**loocyloo** · 14-11-2015, 09:34 PM

My LA has a system in place for EYPP, I don't currently have any children who are eligible.

IF a child leaves a childminder after headcount day, then the childminder still gets paid for that term. IF a child starts after headcount day, then the childminder gets paid for as many hours as the child attends, but not till the end of the term. If a child leaves before headcount, then the childminder does not get paid for the weeks the child attended.

I'm not sure, but I think nurseries have to refund payment if child leaves.

**Kiddleywinks** · 15-11-2015, 07:52 AM

No eligible children here

The funding follows the child here, so have to return any overpayment should a child leave mid term to the LA.
As a result of potential non payment I have a contract for funded parents where they agree to pay the whole term.

I have only done funding for existing children, and that's predominately to help parents, not because I want to do funding.
I have no future plans to take on 'funded only' children as, in my experience, there is a greater risk of non payment from people that haven't/don't have to put their hands in their own pockets

Simona · 15-11-2015, 09:48 AM

Thanks again everyone...sorry I want to be clear on this
My understanding is that for EYPP the funding follows the child....so if a child leaves mid term cms will eventually get paid and then refund EYPP not used?

For the free entitlement some LA ask for funding back...others don't or didn't...are there some who allows cms to keep the funding if a child has left mid term?

or are some LAs also now saying the funding for 15 hrs follows the child too?

Loocyloo...I think nurseries and preschools will probably have the same rule as us...I was referring to schools as in nursery and reception classes where children still get the 15 hours.

Does anyone think that paying for the 15 hours and the EYPP...where applicable...would cut half the red tape?

Does anyone deal with more than one LA when accessing funding?
Even if you have no child eligible for EYPP are you aware how the funding for this works and have you seen the conditions attached to it?

Thanks for your patience

Kiddlywinks...very interesting to read your thoughts on this funding saga!

**loocyloo** · 15-11-2015, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

Thanks again everyone...sorry I want to be clear on this
My understanding is that for EYPP the funding follows the child....so if a child leaves mid term cms will eventually get paid and then refund EYPP not used?

For the free entitlement some LA ask for funding back...others don't or didn't...are there some who allows cms to keep the funding if a child has left mid term? YES, mine allows childminders to keep the funding.

or are some LAs also now saying the funding for 15 hrs follows the child too?

Loocyloo...I think nurseries and preschools will probably have the same rule as us...I was referring to schools as in nursery and reception classes where children still get the 15 hours.

Does anyone think that paying for the 15 hours and the EYPP...where applicable...would cut half the red tape?

Does anyone deal with more than one LA when accessing funding?
Even if you have no child eligible for EYPP are you aware how the funding for this works and have you seen the conditions attached to it? yes, but I can't remember exactly! what I can remember is that we have to show HOW we have used that money to make a difference for THAT child.

Thanks for your patience

Kiddlywinks...very interesting to read your thoughts on this funding saga!

I do take children for just their funding, but I prefer them to have been coming to me before hand, and will only take a funded child IF I think the child will fit in and I can work with the parents.

Simona · 15-11-2015, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by loocyloo

I do take children for just their funding, but I prefer them to have been coming to me before hand, and will only take a funded child IF I think the child will fit in and I can work with the parents.

Thanks for your reply.
I am not asking for cms to justify if they take funded children or not...that is a personal decision...all I want to have is information on the different ways cms are paid...in advance or arrears.

Thanks for your patience.