Unregistered care - parents' only choice?

[Mouse]

A school near me announced at the end of term that it's not longer running it's after school club as it's not financially viable.

There are no childminders or nurseries that collect from that school and parents are really struggling. I know some parents specifically chose that school for their children as it had an after school club and now feel very put out that school left it so late to tell them there wouldn't be one. A lot of new starters were totally unaware as it was still listed in the prospectus and parent info pack. As I live quite close to the school I am getting enquiries on a daily basis and have even had the local early years team phoning up and pleading for me to take on some after school children.

I've now seen parents posting on local facebook pages asking if anyone knows of any childcare available for the school. All sorts of random people are replying saying they can help.

As parents are really stuck I do wonder how many of them will end up using unregistered care as the only alternative would be to change their work hours, which isn't always possible.

[shortstuff]

A school near me announced at the end of term that it's not longer running it's after school club as it's not financially viable.

There are no childminders or nurseries that collect from that school and parents are really struggling. I know some parents specifically chose that school for their children as it had an after school club and now feel very put out that school left it so late to tell them there wouldn't be one. A lot of new starters were totally unaware as it was still listed in the prospectus and parent info pack. As I live quite close to the school I am getting enquiries on a daily basis and have even had the local early years team phoning up and pleading for me to take on some after school children.

I've now seen parents posting on local facebook pages asking if anyone knows of any childcare available for the school. All sorts of random people are replying saying they can help.

As parents are really stuck I do wonder how many of them will end up using unregistered care as the only alternative would be to change their work hours, which isn't always possible.

Although I understand the school made a business decision it is such a shame they didnt think of the bigger picture.

Are you able to help at all?

[bunyip]

There's a lot of unregistered 'carers' operating out of our village school. Tbf, some of it is within the law (though I can't speak for the tax/benefits side of things) and is decent enough care. But some is downright scary: like the woman who has children in the back room of her uncle's chippy while she work in the front of the shop.

That's without any shortage of registered care. 4 of us CMs do school runs plus the after-school workhouse from the next town picks up some victims from the school daily. 2 of the CMs do school runs only. They are both lovely but, sadly, one is really struggling to attract clients. I only do schoolies as continuity from those I've had as EY children.

The other CM has an absolutely humungous number of schoolies and there are serious concerns as to which side of the regulations she's on with regard to ratios and safe supervision. Every few weeks I have parents asking how many she's allowed: I just wish they'd speak to her instead of me. I'm not in the business of phoning Ofsted without being 100% sure, although she admitted going over numbers "in an emergency" which wasn't strictly an emergency: just extra bookings on the day of a teachers' strike. Even then she reportedly lied to a parent that her husband is an assistant, which he certainly is not.

Tbh, I'm dreading the start of term. We have converging routes to school and her little army of schoolies often end up intermingled with my 1 or 2 and she deliberately tries to chat and walk with us. I don't like it, especially as hers are always charging about or on scooters and it's a miracle none of my lo's haven't been flattened.................yet.

I got a bit suspicious at the end of term as she was asking if I'd be doing school runs every day come September. Potentially, yes, as I have minded schoolies most days and grandchildren as required for DD's shifts. This other CM then told me how many children she was losing to senior school and how many new starters she'd have and it adds up to fifteen children on some of the school runs. If she can control them, that's her business, but I don't like the idea of them around my little group.

To cap it all, I've had 3 of her client mums stop me and say they understand I walk to school with the other CM and help keep an eye on her children. I am furious about this, but when I mentioned it she laughed it off and just tried to get round me saying how "helpful" she knows I am and how CMs have a duty to help one another in partnership.

[Simona]

A school near me announced at the end of term that it's not longer running it's after school club as it's not financially viable.

There are no childminders or nurseries that collect from that school and parents are really struggling. I know some parents specifically chose that school for their children as it had an after school club and now feel very put out that school left it so late to tell them there wouldn't be one. A lot of new starters were totally unaware as it was still listed in the prospectus and parent info pack. As I live quite close to the school I am getting enquiries on a daily basis and have even had the local early years team phoning up and pleading for me to take on some after school children.

I've now seen parents posting on local facebook pages asking if anyone knows of any childcare available for the school. All sorts of random people are replying saying they can help.

As parents are really stuck I do wonder how many of them will end up using unregistered care as the only alternative would be to change their work hours, which isn't always possible.

The chickens are coming home to roost! did the govt not see this coming despite requesting all schools stay open 8-6pm...these calls came from Gove and Truss themselves!
Not surprised at this school's decision and I fear many more will follow and abandon after school clubs as unsustainable.

Could it be linked to the issue of cms being able to run these clubs with one registration...yes it could be.
Also our esteemed chancellor has introduced the National Living Wage...another word for the National Minimum Wage...and this will be £7.20 from April 2016...I think this school and many others will give up as they won't be able to pay those wages.

Anyone can look after children for 2 hours without registration so parents will have to help each other unless they are too busy going back to work!
Other carers will call themselves nannies and avoid registration

Truss' legacy is showing how flawed and stupid her ideas were....the so called childcare market sha was so fond of is in a real mess and with only 45,000 cms left!

[hectors house]

I don't do school runs as I don't live anywhere near a school and don't want to get involved in the bonkers car parking wars that happen outside schools but just wondering if it may be worth my while to become unregistered, and to walk to the nearest school (30 mins away) and walk back with the entire reception class as it seems that I wouldn't be breaking any rules and the hourly rate would be great. Would probably take nearly an hour to leave the school by the time kids had popped back to get left behind coats, lunch boxes etc and then an hour to walk them home by that time their parents would be waiting to collect them. I see £ signs flashing before my eyes!

[JCrakers]

There used to be 4 childminders here but one has just given up so leaving 3. Touch wood we've never had any problems filling our spaces even with 3 after school clubs (YES...3!!) I'm lucky enough to live in an area where both parents seem to work and the majority have well paid jobs....keeping me in business...luckily.

So with 1 childminder less this coming school year and the after school club full and all 3 childminders full I don't know what the parents are doing. It amazes me though that the amount of parents who are only just starting to look for after school care....leaving it a bit too late. Some parents have been putting names down since the start of the year.

My limit is 9 mindees in 1 go....I have, on the add occasion had 10 but that's only having an existing child an extra day. I have children waiting for spaces but wouldn't take a 10th on as 10 seems a lot more than 9 for some reason...lol
My mindees do range up to 11-12yrs old though so not such hard work having 3 11yr olds and 6 smaller ones

[JCrakers]

I got a bit suspicious at the end of term as she was asking if I'd be doing school runs every day come September. Potentially, yes, as I have minded schoolies most days and grandchildren as required for DD's shifts. This other CM then told me how many children she was losing to senior school and how many new starters she'd have and it adds up to fifteen children on some of the school runs. If she can control them, that's her business, but I don't like the idea of them around my little group.

To cap it all, I've had 3 of her client mums stop me and say they understand I walk to school with the other CM and help keep an eye on her children. I am furious about this, but when I mentioned it she laughed it off and just tried to get round me saying how "helpful" she knows I am and how CMs have a duty to help one another in partnership.

15...Whoah..That's a lot!!

[blue bear]

15...Whoah..That's a lot!!

Isn't the maximum we can be insured for 12?

[JCrakers]

Isn't the maximum we can be insured for 12?

that's a good point....With MortonMichel yes

[Mouse]

I've had another parent on the phone today pleading with me to collect her child from school. I have thought about doing it, but I've always said I wouldn't go back to doing school runs and I know I'd regret it after a while.

The same thing has happened at another school (the after school club closing as it's not making any money), but that school has a lot of childminders collecting from it so parents have been able to find alternative care. And to be honest, the after school club wasn't that popular anyway as parents preferred to use childminders.

I know unregistered doesn't necessarily mean illegal if they don't need to be registered, but I would question the quality of care they will provide.

[k1rstie]

Isn't the maximum we can be insured for 12?

I checked with M&M last week. It's 12 children, but does not include y,our own children, but you must remain within your Ofsted numbers. ( and its 12 at one time)

[JCrakers]

I checked with M&M last week. It's 12 children, but does not include y,our own children, but you must remain within your Ofsted numbers. ( and its 12 at one time)

Yes That's one reason why I don't go over 9 mindees. Giving space for my own two children and maybe a space for one of their friends to pop round.

[Mouse]

Tbh, I'm dreading the start of term. We have converging routes to school and her little army of schoolies often end up intermingled with my 1 or 2 and she deliberately tries to chat and walk with us. I don't like it, especially as hers are always charging about or on scooters and it's a miracle none of my lo's haven't been flattened.................yet.

I got a bit suspicious at the end of term as she was asking if I'd be doing school runs every day come September. Potentially, yes, as I have minded schoolies most days and grandchildren as required for DD's shifts. This other CM then told me how many children she was losing to senior school and how many new starters she'd have and it adds up to fifteen children on some of the school runs. If she can control them, that's her business, but I don't like the idea of them around my little group.

I got used like that by a childminding friend of mine. I'd usually walk home with her - me and my 3 mindees, her and up to 17 children (until she realised she wasn't covered on her insurance for that many). She could pretty much control them by herself, but did need help getting them all over the road. I really didn't think much of it till she started phoning me to ask if I would be at school that day. She eventually said that it looked better having me walking with her as some people had been questioning how many children she had with her! Luckily I could walk a different way home without it looking obvious that I was trying to avoid her!

[bunyip]

I got used like that by a childminding friend of mine. I'd usually walk home with her - me and my 3 mindees, her and up to 17 children (until she realised she wasn't covered on her insurance for that many). She could pretty much control them by herself, but did need help getting them all over the road. I really didn't think much of it till she started phoning me to ask if I would be at school that day. She eventually said that it looked better having me walking with her as some people had been questioning how many children she had with her! Luckily I could walk a different way home without it looking obvious that I was trying to avoid her!

This is what the other CM is trying with me. Hr stated aim is that she wants to eventually open a nursery: seems she already has nursery numbers in her head. A real PITA, she comes over all friendly with the rest of the village CMs, but she's just as happily stab you in the back or try to grab your clients off you. It's the same one who told (not asked) us we'd all be supporting her children's Xmas party (had a Santa suit ready for me) and that we'd all be underwriting the cost, as recommended by her "accountant" (who is actually her DH.) Then she was furious and accused us all of "letting her down" and "not working in partnership" when none of us threw our time and money at her party and she lost money on the venue, catering, entertainer, etc.

[Simona]

Interesting thread this...even though it has deviated a bit from the OP ....don't you think so Bunyip?...just shows it happens all the time

We seem to have forgotten the policies the govt said it would introduce a few months ago and are now coming to fruition
Do I recall correctly that Cms are now free to have 'one' registration and work in different settings?...there are some questions about how it would work but it is there.

Do I also recall Truss et al announcing after school clubs do not require qualified staff and Cms could have a ratio of 1:30 in these circumstances?
Anyone with good searching skills will find the announcement about this much quicker than I could.

If so then the school afternoon club Mouse has been talking about could be taken over by a CM who wishes to try a different strand of childminding and work with older children...there is, somewhere in this forum archive, a very long discussion we had when this policy was announced !

Yes...some people will definitely see £££ signs...working for just 3 hours in the afternoon and for 38 weeks of the year ...uh! that could make a lot of money...if it is honestly earned why not.
Just imagine if any school would be willing to offer premises to a cm for wraparound care and holiday care

This was the official announcement.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...employment-act

Cm agencies will be very happy to hear of this shortage...there is an opportunity for them which I believe our Agency 12 mentioned in her thread...I bet St Bede's does not have any problem with after school care?
What about nurseries and preschools who have expanded and now do wrap around care...this is cm's business going elsewhere.

The Cm going around with 15 children...now that is interesting too...is the '12 children' insurance clause only for 0-8? or does it cover the over 8s who do not require registration?
has it also got a connection with what her LA allows in their planning ?
maybe this cm is not breaking the Ofsted registration rules ...but if she is why is she walking around and no one has reported her to Ofsted?

Unregistered care is not necessarily poor quality...it can be good or bad and it has gone on for a very long time.
it will definitely be cheaper and only for 2 hours which is hardly any time to do anything other than collect from school, take children home, give snack and say good bye.

One side in this story is trying to 'deregulate' childcare ...while the other is sticking to its original remit.
Interesting times ahead !

[Maza]

Some people are so brazen! On a lesser note, I realised I was being used by a dog-walking friend who was going over her numbers. It started innocently when she accidentally double booked some clients and I didn't mind as we had a good natter, but then she tongue-in-cheek introduced me as her 'assistant' to another walker who we bumped into. I thought nothing of it at the time but when it sunk in I was very disappointed. She also started asking me if I was free 'next Thursday' etc. One time, a bunch of mums were out (without her) and another mum mentioned that she usually goes dog walking with her every Wednesday. She was making a fortune! I haven't been since. I miss it as we used to have lovely walks but I think using people is one of the ugliest traits one can have.

[FloraDora]

On my hols...yet reading this thread with enthusiasm!

Good points Simona.

My friend discussed this with me the other day..she said that she would be really picky about pre school setting as this is really important to her child's development, but for an hour and a half after school she wouldn't be so particular as long as she knew her child was being cared for and enjoying the time, as after school, if he was at home, he would probably just crash out after a long school day anyway and watch some TV or play a game before his evening club and dinner.
She has no expectations that after school care is anything more than a fun session and a time to relax after a hard day at school and as long as she was happy with the adult supervising, she wouldn't be bothered about qualifications ....except first aid....and DBS...and possibly insurance if there was an accident... Would she check for these qualifications???

Er....no.... She hadn't!

[bunyip]

I know unregistered care is not necessarily illegal. I understand and in many ways support parents' desire for a simple care package that isn't about over-education and excessive aspects of regulation.

BUT............

It's unsettling to see how often this comes up on 'other chatrooms' (eg. nutmoms) and is met with a flood of people wanting to find or provide unregistered care, especially as they all seem keen to push the boundaries and try to get away with additional care which crosses the 'required to register' line.

[Simona]

Unregistered childcare is not illegal if it is for only 2 hours...that is not really long enough for most parents.
The problem is that relying on friends does not include a commitment ...friends can cancel their agreement the minute something else comes up in their daily life.
Also friends would not commit to all the holidays cover.

I have come across this and it is run in my area...says it all really

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