After school club expanding

[Mummits]

I have had a couple of parents recently enquiring about after school places and then choosing to put their reception year children in the after school club. The last has told me that the club had turned them down in April (they used not to take children until year one, but were full anyway) but now says they will offer a place as their child ratios are changing and they can take a lot more children. I've never tried to compete on price with the after school club, and have had a fair number of parents who have been happy to pay a bit more for a more home from home environment and a home cooked meal. However, if they are indeed expanding and marketing quite actively, I can see that this could affect the "supply" of after=schoolers.

Added to this there is a lot of playground talk about Mums taking each others' children from September as they will no longer be required to register, be insured etc. There is (reputedly) quite a lot of unregistered cash in hand type of childcare going on already, but it would seem that a lot more will be raring to have a go next year! Am I right in thinking that unregistered minders would be able to care for any number of children for up to three hours, whilst my conditions of registration would continue to limit my numbers?

I may be being unduly gloomy, but I am beginning to think I may have to rethink my business if before and after school business dries up. It's not a huge proportion of my income but it does mean I have been happy to take toddlers for short days, knowing that they will be gone by three and free up a place for an older child. Maybe I need to rethink this and concentrate on finding children who need full days.

Any thoughts?

[loocyloo]

I think this is going to carry on happening.

our afterschool club couldn't take too many more children due to lack of space and I think mums have always looked after each others children - but maybe not cash in hand type care.

I only have a few schoolies, and don't actively look for them, as I'm finding they don't gel so well, as my own children get older! I will be having a new schoolie though in September, who finds the afterschool club too overwhelming, doesn't like the 'beans on toast' ( that seems to be the only hot offering for tea ) and feels ignored by the staff, so maybe, that's the way for you to target your prospective clients - home from home, fewer children, home cooked meals.

xx

[Mouse]

I can see there being a big increase in unregistered care offered under the "up to 3 hours" rule. I guess this is a major way the government will use to show that parents are paying less for childcare, while at the same time it will save the government money. Parents won't be able to claim tax credits to help with the cost, so the people looking after the children will have to charge less, but as they won't be restricted by numbers they can still make a lot of money. Cheaper for parents & less benefits being paid out.

And technically these people will still be able to call themselves childminders, just not registered childminders. How many parents are going to notice the difference? There'll be nothing to stop them advertising, even on somewhere like childcare.co.uk, as they'll be doing nothing wrong.

Then how many will "push" the rules? What if they have the child for slightly over 3 hours? What if they have them for full days during holidays? Who's going to check on that? No one, because they're not registered, so will be left alone. Parents aren't likely to report their cheap childcare...until something goes wrong

[Jayse74]

We are currently experiencing this!

The school is actively pushing their new breakfast/after school provision. We have noticed many parents now using each other for cash-in-hand type childcare. Only a small few have signed up to the provision, mainly the breakfast club but for around 10minutes. Does not seem worth it but that is what they choose.

After schoolies are not a huge amount of income but, we have noticed the loss. We still currently retain a small number but when they move on, then afterschool will be a distant memory for us.

Our local school is not quite having a smooth ride, things are changing. Some support the changes whilst others do not! Also a major change means the pre-school has been given notice to vacate. Still cannot see where they will re-locate to around our area... there seems to be nothing suitable! Its a real shame as the school has had this nursery there for many years. Way before our own two children attended the school, some 16years ago.

[Jayse74]

I can see there being a big increase in unregistered care offered under the "up to 3 hours" rule. I guess this is a major way the government will use to show that parents are paying less for childcare, while at the same time it will save the government money. Parents won't be able to claim tax credits to help with the cost, so the people looking after the children will have to charge less, but as they won't be restricted by numbers they can still make a lot of money. Cheaper for parents & less benefits being paid out.

And technically these people will still be able to call themselves childminders, just not registered childminders. How many parents are going to notice the difference? There'll be nothing to stop them advertising, even on somewhere like childcare.co.uk, as they'll be doing nothing wrong.

Then how many will "push" the rules? What if they have the child for slightly over 3 hours? What if they have them for full days during holidays? Who's going to check on that? No one, because they're not registered, so will be left alone. Parents aren't likely to report their cheap childcare...until something goes wrong

When it goes wrong, which one day it will! You can bet these people will not play by the rules of law and it will become messy.

IMHO there is nothing anybody can do now, this was put in place and now people will take advantage of it. As the months go by, I wonder why we bother anymore. If people can get away with all sorts what is the point? We were proud of what we have achieved but it just feels like somebody is trying hard to undo everything for their own ends?

[Simona]

Pre and after school care in a school is definitely cheaper so there is our competition as they can take 30 children ...no qualifications required.
Truss' own policy I am afraid.
We did envisage that in recent discussions but many said we had no worry because parents would choose CMs over unregistered care...I think many parents choose with their pocket!

Parents can ...of course...care for other people's children up to 3 hours without registration...so not sure how they will go round the problem during the holidays when they need a full day and many want to have time off with their own children?
Full day nurseries will also cater for the holidays as they are already doing

What I can envisage now is Family and Childcare Trust having another survey out soon saying that holiday care is in short supply...we could have told them that from the start!.... but they did back any govt proposals to reduce costs to parents...short sighted I think

[Jayse74]

If I were a balloon! I would explode lol

Regarding wraparound provision:

They cost no more than we do!
They do the same as we do!
They cook the same food, we have more variety!

But from now on, we are treated lower then them

We were offered the scraps from their wraparound table this morning by one parent.... I knew it would happen and I personally refuse to entertain it! If I am wrong guys please say so...

My partner was stopped just after the morning school run by a parent who has never supported us in any way shape or form. She has only ever made mild sarcastic comments about whom we have etc. This parent also is one of a great number who do cash-in-hand childcare, I know this and I have witnessed her doing so. The parents circumstances have changed so she chooses wraparound and the only reason we get collared is because the wraparound will not do weekends.

"No thank you!" We can do weekends but why should my partner jump for a parent who has no respect for Childminders? I hope this does not sound like I am spitting my dummy but, we are made to feel inadequate and not good enough by this group and then suddenly have to do as we are told... who do they think they are?

So to do this the right way, we will politely decline and then ensure we give the parent a list of providers in the area. This will hopefully limit any arrogant attitudes about things. This is not the first time this has happend!

It is not even mid week yet, what else is coming?

[Simona]

If I were a balloon! I would explode lol

Regarding wraparound provision:

They cost no more than we do!
They do the same as we do!
They cook the same food, we have more variety!

But from now on, we are treated lower then them

We were offered the scraps from their wraparound table this morning by one parent.... I knew it would happen and I personally refuse to entertain it! If I am wrong guys please say so...

My partner was stopped just after the morning school run by a parent who has never supported us in any way shape or form. She has only ever made mild sarcastic comments about whom we have etc. This parent also is one of a great number who do cash-in-hand childcare, I know this and I have witnessed her doing so. The parents circumstances have changed so she chooses wraparound and the only reason we get collared is because the wraparound will not do weekends.

"No thank you!" We can do weekends but why should my partner jump for a parent who has no respect for Childminders? I hope this does not sound like I am spitting my dummy but, we are made to feel inadequate and not good enough by this group and then suddenly have to do as we are told... who do they think they are?

So to do this the right way, we will politely decline and then ensure we give the parent a list of providers in the area. This will hopefully limit any arrogant attitudes about things. This is not the first time this has happend!

It is not even mid week yet, what else is coming?

I am interested in this topic and also in your response and I could do a bit more digging then!

You say that they cost the same...do what we do...cook same food but we have more variety.

I have looked into this locally for a while ...and asked parents who used wraparound care and holiday clubs
Also fees maybe different here than in your area

The clubs offered less hours...mostly not convenient for parents who needed past 6pm
The cost was lower ...we looked at what parents had to provide: packed lunch, 2 snacks, drinks and even water, any extra activities were to be paid for and dinner was not included therefore parents had to rush home and do that as well as homework ....preparing packed lunch they said took their time in the morning

so all in all it came to exactly the same as a cm apparent higher fee together with the guarantee we could offer that care all the time...no need to book and continuity of care

You say we are treated lower than them...not sure at this moment except some parents see a saving and that may drive their choice
With the ratio being 1:30 the cost should be lower but I wonder how many will stick to that? it is rather unmanageable and ...eventually I think their fees will rise too

Keep us posted with this

[Kiddleywinks]

If I were a balloon! I would explode lol

Regarding wraparound provision:

They cost no more than we do!
They do the same as we do!
They cook the same food, we have more variety!

But from now on, we are treated lower then them

We were offered the scraps from their wraparound table this morning by one parent.... I knew it would happen and I personally refuse to entertain it! If I am wrong guys please say so...

My partner was stopped just after the morning school run by a parent who has never supported us in any way shape or form. She has only ever made mild sarcastic comments about whom we have etc. This parent also is one of a great number who do cash-in-hand childcare, I know this and I have witnessed her doing so. The parents circumstances have changed so she chooses wraparound and the only reason we get collared is because the wraparound will not do weekends.

"No thank you!" We can do weekends but why should my partner jump for a parent who has no respect for Childminders? I hope this does not sound like I am spitting my dummy but, we are made to feel inadequate and not good enough by this group and then suddenly have to do as we are told... who do they think they are?

So to do this the right way, we will politely decline and then ensure we give the parent a list of providers in the area. This will hopefully limit any arrogant attitudes about things. This is not the first time this has happend!

It is not even mid week yet, what else is coming?

I don't think you're spitting your dummy at all!
I would feel highly insulted that I wasn't good enough during the week but good enough at weekends, so would take the same stand as yourself : Decline politely, and give a list of other providers.
Leave them to get on with it

[Jayse74]

I don't think you're spitting your dummy at all!
I would feel highly insulted that I wasn't good enough during the week but good enough at weekends, so would take the same stand as yourself : Decline politely, and give a list of other providers.
Leave them to get on with it

If we get the chance to offer up the list lol! we will list the providers but I am assuming we will not get the chance as they tend to do this a lot!

The pattern I have noticed makes it appear they were doing nothing more than fishing at us... finding out why we are still open

In the past we did make the mistake of not coming back with a full list, they seem fully capable of finding us on DISC and other search sites, but on the other hand seem to be totally incapable of finding others in the same area? How is that even possible? lol

[JCrakers]

Its ok in my area at the moment. We have 3 after school clubs, one is held in the school hall. I've looked at prices and where as I'm charging £3.50 per hour, they charge £11.00 3-6pm so prices are on a par.

There's no shortage of children at the moment but I think the afterschool clubs are full and I have a lot also so the demand is quite high here. A lot of Mums are working. There are 2 other childminders for the school who have a lot of school children and another minder who just minds part time so she occasionally has 1 or 2.

A couple of my mindees started with me for 1-2 days as well as the after school club because I didn't have space but when space became available with me they chose my house instead of the club as its more relaxed and quieter/less boisterous.

I noticed 1 mum recently with an extra schoolie in a morning. She had her own two children (5yrs and 2yrs) and another 5yr old. She was more or less pulling her hair out trying to get the 3 of them down to school. I passed her as she was trying to get her dd off a scooter and into a pushchair. I breezed past with my 8 mindees and she muttered to herself...."I suppose this gets easier with experience"

Lol

[Jayse74]

I noticed 1 mum recently with an extra schoolie in a morning. She had her own two children (5yrs and 2yrs) and another 5yr old. She was more or less pulling her hair out trying to get the 3 of them down to school. I passed her as she was trying to get her dd off a scooter and into a pushchair. I breezed past with my 8 mindees and she muttered to herself...."I suppose this gets easier with experience"

Lol

Oh I know this one from experience lol! My partner gets that look of "How can she do it? how come they always behave... not fair!" etc etc lol