School holidays

[rsowter]

Hi all

I have a family who so far I haven't had to have in The school holidays but I have charged half fee to keep the space, mum has said she won't pay for one of those days as I couldn't have them at short notice as I planned to finish the fencing in the front garden and didn't want to put them in any danger x
Is this right or should she still be paying x

[Tazmin68]

In this instance I would agree with parent.

I do not charge a retainer and advise parents if they want childcare during holidays and they are usually a term time only it is first come first served as I have others who attend school holidays only.

[Kaybeaa]

I would agree with parent too.

I understood that the point of a retainer was to keep the space open (and available during holidays etc) for that child which would then mean you were able to work it, if that space was needed. If you're unable to have the child, the parent is paying you the retainer for no reason, as the space is not available...

[bunyip]

In this instance I would agree with parent.

I do not charge a retainer and advise parents if they want childcare during holidays and they are usually a term time only it is first come first served as I have others who attend school holidays only.

I agree.

In fact, if I was the parent I'd be pretty darned miffed about the whole thing, and that I wasn't offered a refund the moment my CM knew the place wasn't available. A retainer is not just an entitlement to 'free money'. The moment that place become unavailable, the client is entitled to be notified and refunded: this ought to have been done as soon as the OP decided to close on that day to get the fencing done.

[rsowter]

Ok maybe I should clear a few things up

The parent is not tto and stated that she did not need me over the holidays therefore while my husband was of work we decided to sort the front fencing out and as stated she asked me at the last min x
I did not come on here to be slated for getting free money I just wanted some advice !!!!

[specks4]

What does your contract say? I have 2 term time only children and the contract states that so I don't charge them for school holidays as not contracted to have them. Parents are told that if for whatever reason they may need childcare during holidays then it would be if I had space and availability and then charged for hours they do as overtime. I would stick with what the contract says and if need be update it if parents not happy.

[rsowter]

What does your contract say? I have 2 term time only children and the contract states that so I don't charge them for school holidays as not contracted to have them. Parents are told that if for whatever reason they may need childcare during holidays then it would be if I had space and availability and then charged for hours they do as overtime. I would stick with what the contract says and if need be update it if parents not happy.

Thank you I will have another read through although I'm thinking of handing notice to them for various reasons anyway so may just be a blessing x

[samb]

So the children are all year round but you allow them to pay just 50% for any time they book off which they generally do in school holidays? And they had booked this time off from you already? Do you have any clause in your contracts about how much notice they must give you for changing their mind re holidays etc? If not then really their contract is for you to provide care for their contracted hours so if they ask to use it and you cannot provide it you should do whatever is in your own terms and conditions re your holidays- so if you don't charge for your holidays you should refund them.

I realise that's a lot of "ifs" so hope that makes sense?

If you haven't got anything in your contracts then you need to consider a contract review if you are not happy with what you have agreed.

[specks4]

I hope you sort something out and all parties go away happy. Maybe if you havent already as someone else said put in your contract about how much notice they have to give you regards to wanting care especially if they had said in the first place they didnt need you and then did.
Good luck with it all.

[rsowter]

Ok so my fee policy states that

"Half fees will apply for annual holidays taken by the parent/carer in order to keep a place open for your child"

And I use pacey contracts which on the back states

"A fee may be negotiated as a retainer to ensure that the place remains available for that child upon return from holiday"

So therefore I am reading it as she still needs to pay me ??

[Kiddleywinks]

What do you have about your holidays/closures?
How much notice do you ask for changes? Was the change requested within that time?

[smurfette]

Ok so my fee policy states that "Half fees will apply for annual holidays taken by the parent/carer in order to keep a place open for your child" And I use pacey contracts which on the back states "A fee may be negotiated as a retainer to ensure that the place remains available for that child upon return from holiday" So therefore I am reading it as she still needs to pay me ??

That to me sounds like it's for her term time place not for holidays .. However
Have u ever had kids before in hols for her or said you would? There is something (can't remember what it is called) which makes something almost part of the contract if it is what you have always done.. So if you have had them before she might reasonably assume you would and may have a leg to stand on if she wanted to make a fuss?

Depends really on how your relationship and how you want (or if) that to continue., if she is likely to make a fuss and cause bad blood between you and you want contract to continue you might want to think about refunding it

On the other hand if you want to terminate contract this is one way to push it that way.. But I am not sure if you leave yourself open to a compliant If so (I am in Ireland so we don't have Ofsted so I don't know)
Good luck either way it's horrible to have a dispute like this

[rickysmiths]

I agree.

In fact, if I was the parent I'd be pretty darned miffed about the whole thing, and that I wasn't offered a refund the moment my CM knew the place wasn't available. A retainer is not just an entitlement to 'free money'. The moment that place become unavailable, the client is entitled to be notified and refunded: this ought to have been done as soon as the OP decided to close on that day to get the fencing done.

That is quite harsh!

I have never refunded a retainer it is charged to keep the place open over a period of time. However I do stipulate I need for weeks notice in writing (to avoid confusion) with full payment if they want to use any of the retained days because I plan through the holidays and often go further afield as I have an Assistant.

In this instant if I had not been given sufficient notice and could not have the child I would not be refunding.

To the OP I'm not sure why Fencing in the front garden should be a problem you RA and I would ask the workmen to keep the way to my door free, and stay in doors for the day. Are you not having any children that day because of the work? I had 90' of Fencing done in my back garden, it took 2 days and I minded for both of them we just didn't use the garden. or is it that you just don't want the lo because you weren't expecting to have them in the holidays? If that is the case then maybe you shouldn't be charging a retainer?

[natlou82]

I'm confused! Does she now want to use the space? Could you cancel the fence being done if the space was required? Could you risk assess and still look after the child if she suddenly decided to send them? If so you are quite right to still charge the retainer. If there's no way possible you could have the child that day I would consider a refund to maintain a pleasant working relationship.

[caz3007]

We live and learn. If you do a similar contract in the future or will add a clause to the current parent that you require x number of days notice for having child take up the retained space to avoid confusion in the future. But in this instance I would probably refund as a goodwill gesture but just this once

[rsowter]

It was me and my partner doing the fencing ourselves so wouldn't of been able to look after them x
The parent has already deducted the cost herself so don't need to worry about refunding x

[Kiddleywinks]

Not sure I'd be too happy about parent deciding to deduct money without an agreement about that, which you hadn't yet got - but that's a whole other thread ;-)

I'd take the opportunity to do a contract review now that this issue has presented itself so there's no confusion in the future?
How much notice should parent give if they want additional care in the holidays
If the required notice is not given and you have made alternative arrangements what happens
If you are on holiday do you still charge a retainer or not

[bunyip]

That is quite harsh!

I have never refunded a retainer it is charged to keep the place open over a period of time. However I do stipulate I need for weeks notice in writing (to avoid confusion) with full payment if they want to use any of the retained days because I plan through the holidays and often go further afield as I have an Assistant.

In this instant if I had not been given sufficient notice and could not have the child I would not be refunding.

To the OP I'm not sure why Fencing in the front garden should be a problem you RA and I would ask the workmen to keep the way to my door free, and stay in doors for the day. Are you not having any children that day because of the work? I had 90' of Fencing done in my back garden, it took 2 days and I minded for both of them we just didn't use the garden. or is it that you just don't want the lo because you weren't expecting to have them in the holidays? If that is the case then maybe you shouldn't be charging a retainer?

I'd assumed the fee charged for the holidays was a retainer. I may well have been wrong: maybe it was a holiday week specified as 'holiday' by the parents - ie. a week away when the child would normally have attended. I'm still not altogether clear on this from the information provided by the OP, but that could just be my fuzzy head failing to get to grips with the specifics. This may be a case of the pro-forma (standard pacey?) contracts and the temptation when first using them to assume they say what a CM wants them to say. I certainly felt like this when I started out, but also felt entitled to phone NCMA to ask, since I was paying my subscription for that kind of advice.

I stand by what I said about retainers. It is a fee to keep the place open. If it's not available for use, then it's not an open place and shouldn't be charged. As a client of any business, I'd be unhappy if I was paying and the service provider wasn't keeping their side of the deal.

The OP seems to have made a sensible decision to close cos she can't do the fence and supervise the children, fair enough. If the mum had booked this week as 'holiday' from the arrangement, then, yes, it's rather short notice to change booked holiday. But if it's done on a retainer basis, then I think the parent has rights.

[rsowter]

Thanks everyone for your help I have since spoken to childminding matters who help childminders and they have cleared up some things on my contract and policies which I was not sure of as I have only been doing this for a year it's all still very new so I will be updating my policy's and reviewing the contracts for all my parents x