Very angry little boy

[Kaybeaa]

I currently mind my friends little boy from 4.30 until 6 on a Tuesday evening. He's 3 in June and is only just starting to put words together. Most of the time he's here he's crying and saying "want mummy" and it's quite draining trying to distract him as he's reluctant to join in. However when he does join in he turns from this vulnerable upset little boy into a complete bully. If a child is playing with a toy even in his vicinity he lunges for the child screaming "mine" and physically hits, bites, punches kicks of pins down the other child until he's restrained. It's honestly like a red mist descends, and then he will kick or punch anyone who comes near him. His mum calls him a psycho and says she's scared of taking him to toddler groups as he's like that there. The other day he bit a 4 year old so hard he actually drew blood and the week before he jabbed a crayon into another boys face and it was centimetres from his eye. I have to be on guard at all times which is tricky as Tuesday is my busiest day!

We've both tried ignoring it, positive praise for the nice things he does (which are few and far between) time out, telling off, nothing seems to work.

It's getting to the point where I'm considering giving this mum notice as I dread the child coming. And if we ever see him at toddler group I have to move all my children away from him. It's like he just flips and it's genuinely quite scary. Anybody have an suggestions as to what to do/suggest to mum?

Apologies for the huge post

[jackie 7]

It sounds as if mum had already given up. I would be using my thinking point for angry behaviour. Sitting where he can see others play and at the same time doing lots of turn taking with toys and tell him they are your toys not his. I would use my firm but controlled voice when talking to him. Hd is also not going to enough places to learn how to behave. Ask mum to take him for a long and very energetic walk on their way to you.

[smurfette]

Yes I think Jackie might have hit the nail on the head .,
For all mum says she is doing the same (and I know maybe he hits her too) she said herself she isn't taking him to toddler groups so how does he learn to behave around other kids? I think I might be suggesting she ramps up the toddler groups ,
Go as often as poss and deals with each incident consistently, and watches for triggers to re
Direct him before he gets to do it

It's hard for you on only one day a week for two hours, he doesn't get time to learn the rules and especially if his language isn't great yet. Things should improve as his language comes along, but in your shoes I am not sure I would want to deal with it for two hours once a week, at the end of a busy tiring day!!

[Mouse]

I know you say you've tried ignoring the negative behaviour, as is often the advice, but it sounds as if this child's behaviour is so extreme it needs addressing, not ignoring.

Has mum spoken to a HV or GP about it? It sounds as if he (and mum) need more help than you & she alone can give him. Maybe a parenting course night help, or a focussed parent & child group (not just a weekly toddler group) where there are people to help.

I guess it's hard for him coming to you just a short time. It doesn't really give him chance to get established in your group of children and at that time of evening he could be tired. Does he attend any sort of playgroup where mum drops him off?

[Kaybeaa]

Thanks for your advice guys. Yes ignoring is probably the worst thing to do as it gives him impression that he can punch and kick and no one will bat an eyelid. More often than not I can see the red mist descend and intervene before he actually does anything. His mum does the same. But it's the red mist that he gets that's worrying. It's so aggressive for a nearly 3 year old that as I say I'm quite scared by it. Sometimes he can hit out at people even when no toys are involved. The other week he tried to bite a 10 month old baby who was sat next to him!

I've suggested HV to mum and she said she will consider it. I also agree that lack of toddler groups is making situation worse but it's a vicious circle as I think mum thinks that before too long they'll both be banned from toddler groups!

Unfortunately if this isn't dealt with soon I can see it getting worse. Child is booked into a morning play group from June when he turns 3, and his mum having a baby in October!

[Mouse]

Could you phone the HV clinic yourself and ask for some advice. There's no need to give a name, just explain the situation and ask if they have any suggestions? They may know of any groups mum could take him to that aren't just a normal toddler group. Are there any PEEP groups near you (although he may be a bit old for that now)?

Did the child ever have a 2 year assessment check with a HV? Was anything mentioned then?

[Jiorjiina]

So, to sum up:

• Most of the time he's here he's crying and saying "want mummy"
  
• he's reluctant to join in
  
• His mum calls him a psycho and says she's scared of taking him to toddler groups as he's like that there.
  
• Sometimes he can hit out at people even when no toys are involved

You say he's vulnerable and upset, is there something happening at home that is causing him to feel this upset and angry? Are there any other signs that might point to some deeper developmental problems? Who else has his mum spoken to about his behaviour? The more scared of him she is, the less likely she is to try and deal with his behaviour (like avoiding toddler groups), so the more uncontrollable he will get.

Also, I agree about not ignoring his current bad behaviour. Ignoring is really only for things that are more of an irritation. Biting so hard that it draws blood is something that requires someone to actually tell him that his behaviour is not acceptable. You don't need to punish him, or even necessarily tell him off, but he does need to have the boundaries firmly enforced. (One of my mindees has just been through a biting phase, which thankfully seems to have come to an end now!) He's nearly 3 so he should be able to understand about good behaviour, not hurting others and the basics of sharing (even if he isn't very good at it).

[Kaybeaa]

Good advice about the HV I might speak to her when my own DS has his 2 1/2 year check which is coming up next month. As far as mindees check, I don't know, I'll ask mum though.

I wouldn't say mum is scared of him because from what I gather he doesn't hit her. I think she's scared of what people will think of her and her son and her parenting skills. I know she's lost friends over this. As far as I've seen she's dealt with him well. When he hits she tells him firmly why it's wrong, makes him say sorry (which he does) etc. at toddler groups that she does attend she keeps him close by and if it looks like he's going to lose control she grabs him. More often though she's not quick enough. My own DS was floored by this child only yesterday at a group but we managed to pull them away before any hitting began. It's exhausting having to watch him every second though as, as I say, one minute he's playing fine and the next he literally turns into a completely out of control child.

His mum is lovely and his dad is too, if not a little weak (he picks him up on a Tuesday and it takes him about 20 minutes to convince him to get his coat on etc.. No real authority with him) it's strange because I don't think the family are having problems. They seem very happy and normal. Mum is pregnant again (mindee doesn't know this yet) and the mindee has regular contact with grandparents etc.
it sounds awful saying it but it's almost as if he was born like this and won't change??

[Kaybeaa]

Just to add that the only developmental problem he could have is his speech. He's probably only just emerging into the 16-26 months with speech and tends to hang around with children who have much better speech development than him so that could be making him frustrated? That said he can easily communicate his needs, just not proper sentences etc.

[Ripeberry]

They are going to have to pull their socks up and give him boundaries. They must be united (the parents) in how they deal with him. As others have said, see the HV, go to more toddler groups or even a Creche at a Leisure center. Because, unless they try and sort it out,it's going to get a whole lot worse once the baby comes along

[Mrsh3103]

How many months is mum?
Has this behaviour been constantly this bad or has it got progressively worse over time?

Even of mum hasn't said anything to him about the new baby. He will know something is going on! This could be causing a lot of the problems you're all having with him.

[sing-low]

How many months is mum? Has this behaviour been constantly this bad or has it got progressively worse over time? Even of mum hasn't said anything to him about the new baby. He will know something is going on! This could be causing a lot of the problems you're all having with him.

This is what I thought too!

[Simona]

I currently mind my friends little boy from 4.30 until 6 on a Tuesday evening. He's 3 in June and is only just starting to put words together. Most of the time he's here he's crying and saying "want mummy" and it's quite draining trying to distract him as he's reluctant to join in. However when he does join in he turns from this vulnerable upset little boy into a complete bully. If a child is playing with a toy even in his vicinity he lunges for the child screaming "mine" and physically hits, bites, punches kicks of pins down the other child until he's restrained. It's honestly like a red mist descends, and then he will kick or punch anyone who comes near him. His mum calls him a psycho and says she's scared of taking him to toddler groups as he's like that there. The other day he bit a 4 year old so hard he actually drew blood and the week before he jabbed a crayon into another boys face and it was centimetres from his eye. I have to be on guard at all times which is tricky as Tuesday is my busiest day!

We've both tried ignoring it, positive praise for the nice things he does (which are few and far between) time out, telling off, nothing seems to work.

It's getting to the point where I'm considering giving this mum notice as I dread the child coming. And if we ever see him at toddler group I have to move all my children away from him. It's like he just flips and it's genuinely quite scary. Anybody have an suggestions as to what to do/suggest to mum?



Apologies for the huge post

Quite a few issue here...the boy is nearly 3 and just starting to put words together...is this normal and has anyone raised any concerns? Take a look at Development Matters and alarm bell will be ringing

Child is labelled a 'psycho'...unbelievable anyone can call a child that
His behaviour suggests he need intervention and pretty quickly too....hitting , biting are all clear signs of behavioural issues that need addressing

Sad post really especially the 'red mist' allusion ...what doe it mean? ...this child needs support and fast! and parents should not delay in getting advice from the H/Visitor

[Kaybeaa]

Thanks for everyone's input. Have spoken to mum today and told her I'd got advice from this forum. She is going to take son to HV at earliest opportunity. I have also advised getting to more toddler/play groups but I know she's worried as I think she thinks her DS behaviour has lost her friends (which sadly it has) and she's scared of the rejection. I've offered my support in going with her, although obviously I've got to be careful to not put my own children in a vulnerable position.

Home issues, I don't know. Both me and mum are stumped as he seems to have a fairly idyllic life. Mum and dad together and happy, grandparents in next village, mum is around in the day, dad in the evenings. It's no different situation to plenty of other children I see, so why this child acting differently I don't know. I wondered if it was because he was an only child and used to having own way, and all his own toys but it seems a weak excuse. My DS is 6 months younger, an only child and furthermore his mum (me) is a childminder so not only does he share his mum he shares his toys too, and my DS is a lovely well adjusted little boy who never hits, yeh this boys mother appears to bring her DS up with the same rules and morals that I do, and her child is completely different. That's what I don't get?

Yes his speech is definitely behind for his age. He's only just emerging into the 16-26 bracket.

I guess I'll wait and see what HV says. Thanks guys x

[Simona]

Thanks for everyone's input. Have spoken to mum today and told her I'd got advice from this forum. She is going to take son to HV at earliest opportunity. I have also advised getting to more toddler/play groups but I know she's worried as I think she thinks her DS behaviour has lost her friends (which sadly it has) and she's scared of the rejection. I've offered my support in going with her, although obviously I've got to be careful to not put my own children in a vulnerable position.

Home issues, I don't know. Both me and mum are stumped as he seems to have a fairly idyllic life. Mum and dad together and happy, grandparents in next village, mum is around in the day, dad in the evenings. It's no different situation to plenty of other children I see, so why this child acting differently I don't know. I wondered if it was because he was an only child and used to having own way, and all his own toys but it seems a weak excuse. My DS is 6 months younger, an only child and furthermore his mum (me) is a childminder so not only does he share his mum he shares his toys too, and my DS is a lovely well adjusted little boy who never hits, yeh this boys mother appears to bring her DS up with the same rules and morals that I do, and her child is completely different. That's what I don't get?

Yes his speech is definitely behind for his age. He's only just emerging into the 16-26 bracket.

I guess I'll wait and see what HV says. Thanks guys x

That seems to be the best thing to do by involving a professional, the HV, for support...you should not guess though...try to get involved as well...this is working in partnership with other professionals

The next best would be to ask the mother to not label her child 'psycho' which could bring future problems with his self esteem
You say your child is 'well adjusted'...what does it mean? all children are different and unique
your mindee is obviously going through some worrying times and the lack of speech could be the reason for his challenging behaviour maybe?

If this child is 3 has no one done a 2 year old Progress Check on him and flagged up emerging concerns about speech and behaviour?

Good luck