What do and dont you collect for from playschool?

**smurfette** · 14-01-2014, 10:38 AM

Never done this before but have an enquiry for a preschool child, mum will need drop off and pick up so have decided I will charge while
There for all the usual reasons.. Keeping space
For hols, can't fill the space while gone etc. Mum works quite far away so won't be easy for her to get back so just would like to clarify what I will collect for and what is the preschools problem!

**LauraS** · 14-01-2014, 10:56 AM

Will collect for preschool closure, Ie burst boiler or bad weather or teachers strike if I am able. That means I will collect at short notice if I can, but won't wait around the house just in case, if we are out and I cannot get back to collect or if weather really is awful then tough, I won't cut a class short for the other mindees or hare about in knee deep snow. No guarantees.

Won't collect for the usual exclusions, ie illness of any sort. Have had to be firm about this one in particular. Too Ill for nursery means too ill for here, too.

I charge for time spent in preschool, and wouldn't be collecting for any reason if I didn't.

I realise that I sound quite tough, bear in mind my response is coloured by the fact I have had quite a bit of messing about with preschoolers so won't tolerate much any more.

**QualityCare** · 14-01-2014, 11:10 AM

If mum is paying me while child is at pre-school then l would be available to collect for whatever reason, if child was unwell and l was nearer than mum then l would collect but expect child to be collected from me as soon as possible, as far as l am concerned child could have been in my house and became ill so it is no different and would be more comfortable for the child to be at mine than at school usually sitting in office.
If mum only paying for time while child at my house only then l wouldn't be readily available but being a nice person and l could collect l probably would.

**dawn100** · 14-01-2014, 11:58 AM

I would only collect for things that made the nursey close eg gas leak, boiler breakdown, I wouldn't collect for illness as it wouldn't be fair on the others in my care being a lone worker, if I'm looking after a child being sick how can I give the others my full attention, yes their is a risk of that happening anyway as a child could become ill in my care but that I think is different to me knowingly collecting a sick child. I also think if you collect a sick child you're not sticking to your sickness policy. I may collect for earache or headache as can offer a quieter setting but would not collect for anything contagious.

Simona · 14-01-2014, 09:34 PM

Some CMs charge for the time children are in preschools, some charge 1/2 retainer for emergency collections and to keep the space in the holidays...and some charge nothing

I have been reflecting on this in view of the 'childcare costs' pressure on to parents if it is now possible for cms to continue charging...wouldn't that increase parents costs?
would charging send parents to schools where their children can have wraparound care from now on thanks to Truss?

Difficult but worth considering if charging would lose us business....childcare has become a competitive market I'm afraid....what do you think?

**bunyip** · 15-01-2014, 10:59 AM

I don't charge whilst at preschool. I make it clear to parents this means I have no obligation to collect at all, but will if practicable.

If you are charging whilst at preschool, I think you really should collect if the preschool is forced to close for an emergency (burst pipe, etc.) Anything else will be down to your sickness policy. generally, I'd say a child who isn't fit to be at another setting isn't fit to be at mine. I might make an exception based on the nature of the poorly-ness. If they have S&D, measles, bubonic plague, etc. then no way. If they have a bad headache, dental neuralgia, etc. and simply can't stand the noise of a group setting (who would?) then I could pop them quietly on my settee for an hour until mum/dad can collect.

I do sympathise/understand why parents don't 'get it' when you charge but won't make an emergency collection. Especially if they get free (funded) hours at the other setting, then have to pay us to "do nothing" for that same time.

I don't criticise CMs who choose to charge for time at preschool, but I do believe we should think about and review the practice from time to time. Simona is right: it's a practice which will increasingly leave us behind in a competitive market as changes take place in the range of EY provision. The one thing guaranteed to upset clients and fuel the media panic over the "cost of childcare" is expecting parents to pay us to "do nothing."

I also think we CMs ought to be more consistent over how we apply the notion of "taking up a place". I know one CM who used to do this, who suddenly realised she had actually filled up her EY places in the mornings (taking on children from PT morning cleaners and a self-employed hairdresser) but was still charging other parents whose lo's were at preschool for the morning. By the same token, we could say that schoolies should pay for the full day: if we take 6 infant school children before and after school, we can't have any full-day EY children, so the schoolies are equally "taking up a place". How many CMs would dare ask their parents to pay the full day because they're "taking up a place"? I know that's a very rare situation, but the logic is consistent whilst the practice/fees policy of CMs isn't. To be brutally honest, it comes down to the fact that we can get away with one but not the other - which makes me wonder how long we can get away with it at all?

**smurfette** · 15-01-2014, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by bunyip

I don't charge whilst at preschool. I make it clear to parents this means I have no obligation to collect at all, but will if practicable. If you are charging whilst at preschool, I think you really should collect if the preschool is forced to close for an emergency (burst pipe, etc.) Anything else will be down to your sickness policy. generally, I'd say a child who isn't fit to be at another setting isn't fit to be at mine. I might make an exception based on the nature of the poorly-ness. If they have S&D, measles, bubonic plague, etc. then no way. If they have a bad headache, dental neuralgia, etc. and simply can't stand the noise of a group setting (who would?) then I could pop them quietly on my settee for an hour until mum/dad can collect. I do sympathise/understand why parents don't 'get it' when you charge but won't make an emergency collection. Especially if they get free (funded) hours at the other setting, then have to pay us to "do nothing" for that same time. I don't criticise CMs who choose to charge for time at preschool, but I do believe we should think about and review the practice from time to time. Simona is right: it's a practice which will increasingly leave us behind in a competitive market as changes take place in the range of EY provision. The one thing guaranteed to upset clients and fuel the media panic over the "cost of childcare" is expecting parents to pay us to "do nothing." I also think we CMs ought to be more consistent over how we apply the notion of "taking up a place". I know one CM who used to do this, who suddenly realised she had actually filled up her EY places in the mornings (taking on children from PT morning cleaners and a self-employed hairdresser) but was still charging other parents whose lo's were at preschool for the morning. By the same token, we could say that schoolies should pay for the full day: if we take 6 infant school children before and after school, we can't have any full-day EY children, so the schoolies are equally "taking up a place". How many CMs would dare ask their parents to pay the full day because they're "taking up a place"? I know that's a very rare situation, but the logic is consistent whilst the practice/fees policy of CMs isn't. To be brutally honest, it comes down to the fact that we can get away with one but not the other - which makes me wonder how long we can get away with it at all?

I don't really agree with this the difference is you can't fill a space for only two / three hours .. And for me that would be down 50 - 60 euros a week! I can't afford that

If I could fill the space I wouldn't charge the parents , and I do get quite a lot of ad hoc work. But mostly this is for younger siblings while older ones are at preschool and by the time they got them to me after dropping the older one up wouldn't be worth anyone's while! And even if they could get them to be first I would be over numbers as I would have four , and then have to cart those three to the preschool to drop the. Fourth off!

**Mouse** · 15-01-2014, 01:01 PM

I don't do nursery runs any more, but always used to charge for the time the child was at nursery.

I now offer funded sessions myself, but this has got me thinking. As a funding provider, the 15 hours a child attends have to be completely free. We're not allowed to charge anything extra for those hours that the child is with us. But, if they attend another setting we do charge while they are there, meaning the child isn't actually getting 15 hours 'free'. No point really to my musings, but even when I did charge, I always thought it strange that the only person benefiting from the child's entitlement to free funding was me!!

**charlottenash** · 15-01-2014, 01:05 PM

Scenario:

3yo comes to you before pre school, you have 3 under 5s. You drop child to pre school for 3 hours, you charge because they are taking a place. Mum says she wants younger sibling to come for those 3 hours. Do you charge for 3 hours + sibling or just for sibling considering they take that space....

**smurfette** · 15-01-2014, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by charlottenash

Scenario: 3yo comes to you before pre school, you have 3 under 5s. You drop child to pre school for 3 hours, you charge because they are taking a place. Mum says she wants younger sibling to come for those 3 hours. Do you charge for 3 hours + sibling or just for sibling considering they take that space....

Ooh that's a messy one.. Real or hypothetical?! I think that would work for me well as one full time space ? Dunno actually hmmm....

Simona · 15-01-2014, 01:29 PM

One thing we could do is fill the 3 hours a child is at preschool with one who comes funded...so they take the 3 hours then off we go to collect...simple but possibly not practical

Should the preschool child then require 'emergency pick up' could this not be in our variation?
Preschool children would come full time in the holidays while the funded ones do not....so it could work but the logistics may be too difficult to work out

**charlottenash** · 15-01-2014, 01:57 PM

Hypothetical

**dawn100** · 15-01-2014, 02:34 PM

I don't charge whilst child is at preschool but do have a minimum daily charge of 5 hours so if they need 5 hours or more they don't have to pay whilst child is at pre school - if that makes sense. That minimum charge applies to all children except after school kids.
One friend of mine worked out even if she paid a cm full fee whilst at preschool it would still be over £5 a day cheaper than sending her child to nursery and using the free hours at nursery.

**bunyip** · 15-01-2014, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

I don't do nursery runs any more, but always used to charge for the time the child was at nursery.

I now offer funded sessions myself, but this has got me thinking. As a funding provider, the 15 hours a child attends have to be completely free. We're not allowed to charge anything extra for those hours that the child is with us. But, if they attend another setting we do charge while they are there, meaning the child isn't actually getting 15 hours 'free'. No point really to my musings, but even when I did charge, I always thought it strange that the only person benefiting from the child's entitlement to free funding was me!!

Agreed.

I have a 3yo who has her 15 funded hours here over 4 days a week. On Tuesdays I see her to preschool in the morning, then she comes back to mine: so she has 3 hours at preschool and 3 (funded) hours here. Our funded rate from the LA is far from generous. The plain fact is that, if I were to charge her the time she was at preschool, I'd make more money for the 3 hours in the morning that I don't have her, than the 3 hours in the afternoon that I do have her.

Charlotte's example is interesting and, whilst it's a hypothetical situation, is quite conceivable. It certainly could happen. As Simona suggests, the variety and flexibility (that stuff CMs keep going on about) of possible future childcare models may ring the death-knell of the mantra "we can't possibly fill the space." With a little ingenuity, my CM friend had little trouble in filling 2-3 hour morning slots. She got 2 cleaners and a hairdresser to fill up the 'down time'. Since they charge their clients around £10ph for cleaning and the hairdresser can easily make £50+in a morning, they were very happy to pay the CM's fee for 2-3 hours and get a little extra work in. The only problem my friend had was the twang of conscience when she remembered she was still charging the parents of the lo's at preschool cos she "couldn't fill the spaces."