level 3, do we all have to do it this year???

[TJF]

Hi all, I think Ive heard that all childminders have to have started their level 3 diploma by the end of this year, is that correct??? xx

[moggy]

Hi all, I think Ive heard that all childminders have to have started their level 3 diploma by the end of this year, is that correct??? xx

No, the only definite requirement for CM childcare qualifications is what is stated in the EYFS- the course specified by the LA which is usually CYPOP5.

LAs may ask for Level 3 in relation to offering 2/3/4yr old funded places.

There have been rumours and ideas about requiring higher qualifications for CMers but nothing is decided.

[Goatgirl]

nope, no requirement as yet.

Which is lucky, because I work a 50 hour week contact time with mindees, plus set up time, cleaning time, organising resources time, researching what ofsted/our local authority's latest demands are time, doing my accounts time, working out invoices and checking whether they have been paid time, communicating with parents politely about when they might like to pay time, planning and working out what activities will work with the children I have (varies week to week), researching activities, sourcing resources for activities, shopping for resources for activities, other equipment and food (also varies week to week)!. I reckon that's an esy 70 hours/week.

Outside that, I am trying to study and complete assignments for my OU degree (20 hours/week). Failing pretty badly as have no time or energy btw and to do all the normal housework, speak to my children occasioally , manage to maintain a relationship with my fiance who lives elsewhere with his children and I'm ashamed to say not managing to keep up with any of my friends: even my poor mum and step -dad who live a ten minute walk away only see us once a fortnight for 2 1/2 hours for dinner
I personally may have no choice but to give up childminding if the level 3 becomes compulsory. There simply isn't the time.

[Simona]

nope, no requirement as yet.

Which is lucky, because I work a 50 hour week contact time with mindees, plus set up time, cleaning time, organising resources time, researching what ofsted/our local authority's latest demands are time, doing my accounts time, working out invoices and checking whether they have been paid time, communicating with parents politely about when they might like to pay time, planning and working out what activities will work with the children I have (varies week to week), researching activities, sourcing resources for activities, shopping for resources for activities, other equipment and food (also varies week to week)!. I reckon that's an esy 70 hours/week.

Outside that, I am trying to study and complete assignments for my OU degree (20 hours/week). Failing pretty badly as have no time or energy btw and to do all the normal housework, speak to my children occasioally , manage to maintain a relationship with my fiance who lives elsewhere with his children and I'm ashamed to say not managing to keep up with any of my friends: even my poor mum and step -dad who live a ten minute walk away only see us once a fortnight for 2 1/2 hours for dinner
I personally may have no choice but to give up childminding if the level 3 becomes compulsory. There simply isn't the time.

If you are doing the OU degree you must already have a Level 3 in Childcare or is the degree in something else?

In reply to the other post LAs may require a level 3 but it is the grade at inspection that allows CMs to draw funding not their qualifications...if they insist on level 3 they may make the situation with the funding for 2 year olds worse...there aren't enough CMs coming forward so it may backfire and 2 year olds will end up in schools...No !

I would like to see the level 3 become compulsory for CMs...I know many do not agree and I am going to be unpopular saying so but...I also would like it to have assignments around 'home based' childcare and time given to CMs to study ...wishful thinking I know!

We should also wait to see what the new Early Years Educator (EYE) entails...from what I have seen and heard it could be more challenging and interesting.

[TJF]

Thanks everyone, I agree totally Goatgirl, I feel the same. xxxx

[Smiley]

A few years ago 2015 was suggested as a date for childminders to have a level 3 but that was put back and has vanished. I think it's unfortunate that it hasn't gone ahead as at the time it was giving childminders about 5 years notice.

[Simona]

A few years ago 2015 was suggested as a date for childminders to have a level 3 but that was put back and has vanished. I think it's unfortunate that it hasn't gone ahead as at the time it was giving childminders about 5 years notice.

You are right....It was indeed the previous govt's intention to make it so by 2015 then....in came Truss and all got put back taken us back years.
Despite Prof Nutbrown's recommendations in her fabulous report Truss ignored that one too.

CMs are the only ones in the sector fighting against a Level 3, in daycare provision achieving it means higher pay, it could work for CMs too and enable them to get higher fees

[jackie 7]

I do think we should have a level 3 but many don't want to as they know they can do the job the hour it. Also the funding had gone. I paid neatly £1000 to doing as I went backwards. Did OU degree first then found out I needed a level 3 to work in a nursery. ET doesn't want us to be better qualified than nursery staff as it would show that agencies are not needed. And I do think that with the experience we all have we are better than most nursery workers.

[k-tots]

I personally am not the academic type...more hands on pickibg things up quickly. ..I hate any type of pw ...if level 3 compulsory then I would have to give up and stack shelfs....as im still struggling woth the eyfs....been on additional courses run by la....I struggle to explain obs but can link them to the eyfs ...from the help of sheets from sarah707... iykwim...I would write...child a has climb the steps then link it to physical. ..I havent got the ability to think of anything further and my next steps would be other climbing equipment. X

[Simona]

I do think we should have a level 3 but many don't want to as they know they can do the job the hour it. Also the funding had gone. I paid neatly £1000 to doing as I went backwards. Did OU degree first then found out I needed a level 3 to work in a nursery. ET doesn't want us to be better qualified than nursery staff as it would show that agencies are not needed. And I do think that with the experience we all have we are better than most nursery workers.

You are right that many want to just do the job but what a level 3 gives you is a bit of extra knowledge that can be added to 'hands on' practice.
I believe this tips the balance slightly when we build a professional relationship with parents...yes they are the first educators but we also hold knowledge that cannot be ignored.

My belief is that CMs will always be the cinderellas of the sector because of the way our care is perceived and the fact no one has ever been determined enough to decide we too must hold qualifications....no one can manage a nursery without a level 3 minimum...but with that there are many things they would never be asked to do compared to a cm whose title envelops so many roles

Also the level 3 has been made very boring...I have supported someone briefly and I found it tedious as she too was bored and not challenged
In addition it now costs a lot of money to do level 3 (around £1000) but ......you should enquire as there is still money from LAs and it is given to nurseries, so do not attempt to pay unless you have found out

This is another one of the questions Truss and DfE should be asked when it comes to agencies....even @HomeChildcare, who is trialling an agency, does say level 3 is funded...so why should it be funded for their members and not ICMs? this is another vital point we have missed while concerned about agencies...it is the way to create a 2 tier system in my view

[jackie 7]

I was so lucky when I did my level 3. At first we had a rubbish tutor then got a fantastic one. I was also lucky that my nanny boss allowed me to change my hours so I could go to college 1 day a week and volunteer at a local school in reception. I learned so much but it was hard work. I didn't finish my nanny job until 9 most evenings. It is a hard enough course but now they have made it boring the people doing it will now finish it. Or is that shat ET wants?

[bunyip]

Anybody fancy a sweepstake on how long it will be before this old chestnut raises its head again?

[Rick]

Anybody fancy a sweepstake on how long it will be before this old chestnut raises its head again?

I've nearly finished it anyway but I expect it won't be long!

[Ripeberry]

If it ever becomes compulsory for everyone then I can't see how they can make us! I'm not spending lots of money on something I might not be doing in 5 years time. I'm in my late 40s I'm not doing this for the long run. I keep myself up to date by reading and coming on here. I don't need a piece of paper to prove what I can do.

[rickysmiths]

They will never make it compulsory for existing childminders. Why? Because there is no way they can enforce it in a Self Employed workforce without loosing 1000's of childcare places overnight.

What are they going to do say after xxx date any cm without a level 3 is automatically de registered? They know they can't do this there would be an outrage from all the parents who would suddenly have no childcare. This is why the date that was originally set was never adhered to and never will be.

There was a time when all Teachers had to do a degree to become qualified but they did not at that point sack all the existing Certificated Teachers who had qualified by going to Teacher Training College, nor did they make them all go off and do a degree either option would have been daft.

Many professions increase the entry requirements over the years and existing staff are updated via ongoing professional training and also have years of experience.

I don't know why this subject keeps raising its head.

There is nothing stopping those who want to do it doing it if they can get funding or have the funding. Age is no barrier I did it when I was 56!! I never thought I would be doing something like a L3 at my age and my children who were doing GCSEs and A Levels at the time thought it was amazing that their old mum was taking exams and doing assignments as well.

[bunyip]

Frankly, I have no idea what the level 3 is supposed to contribute to our ability as members of the "children & young people's workforce" (which always struck me as sounding like some some of junior chain gang. )

I strongly suspect 'someone' at the Dept for Ed decided the country needed a "more highly skilled and qualified workforce" and left a couple of junior civil serpents and the odd whisky-addled educational academic to cobble together this tin-pot certificate. It probably all sounded very good and proper and, by charging us 'learners' represented a cheap way for the regime to be seen to be doing the right thing whilst offering another nice little earner for the private training firms whose contribution to the sum of human knowledge is not to propagate it but rather to commodify it.

My own experience of level 3, examples thereof:-

• My 1st assignment was rejected for being, in the words of my assessor, "too advanced for this level." In other words, they don't want us to be too intelligent, think at all or discuss ideas.
• A very poignant incident occurred at one of the safeguarding seminar/workshops. A young nursery worker stood up and questioned why we had to be taught all this stuff, saying that "no-one should be allowed within 50 metres of a child unless they already know it like the back of their hand." True dat.
• My safeguarding assignment was failed, cos I used the Little Ted's Nursery case study "in an inappropriate manner." My crime? I pointed out that the case provided strong evidence that the level of women's involvement in child abuse was seriously underestimated, thus putting children at risk. I also argued that the over-reliance on CRBs put children at risk. Simply assuming that a mother with a clean CRB was an "angel" and couldn't possibly harm a child was a very strong contributory factor in what led to those children being harmed. It was pointed out to me in no uncertain terms that I was very much 'off message' and that I would not pass unless I demonstrated an unflinching faith in the power of the CRB certificate to protect children.

[Goatgirl]

If you are doing the OU degree you must already have a Level 3 in Childcare or is the degree in something else?

Hi Simona ,
Its an 'open' degree - embarked on for fun many moons ago, when there was still time for fun AND work - includes a range of subjects e.g. natural science ( I have a 'certificate' in this, so the OU tell me, not sure what use it is for anything though !), psychology, creative writing, a short course on the autistic spectrum, an introduction to counselling course, and currently more creative writing, which is unfortunately not really happening for me as I need energy and time to 'create' and there's just not enough of either to go round at the moment .

[Kiddleywinks]

That's a dangerous way of thinking!
(Safeguarding issue lol)

Anyone with half a brain realises that a crb check is only as good as the information available on the day it's carried out, it is not the be all and end all of any profession.

[dawn100]

I'm currently doing the level 3, have been to all my evening sessions now just got the remainder of the assignments to finish- have I learnt much from it? No not really, felt like most of it was like teaching your granny how to suck boiled eggs, half a session was on how to write RA- I'd done that at my cypop5 and have a folder of them, another session was on safeguarding but didn't go into half the detail as my safe guarding training that I did before I started cm, I just found most of the stuff I knew already. I really don't feel it's been much of a benefit to me - I'm not against training or saying I can't learn anything because I already know it far from it but I really felt like the level 3 was aimed at people with no experience of children or childcare and therefore not much benefit to me. It contrast I went on a 6 week language and communication course ran by speech therapists and feel I learnt so much more on that and it has benefitted the children in my care so much that I think the course should be run so more people get the chance to go on it but sadly like many things the funding was pulled after one course and its far more than most are willing to spend on a course.

Bunyip- I can't believe people delivering the training are making people regard crb's like that - its just scary; I've always disliked how people deem people with crb's as 100% safe and you should never question someones actions if they have a crb as someone who has raped, abused or murdered could get a all clear with a crb and could feel confident in applying for one if they know they have never been convicted - just got to look at the figures of unsolved crime! Sorry personal bug bearer of mine!

[Simona]

I cannot believe what I am reading.....why have they changed the NVQ 3 so much to make it so unappealing?

OK I did mine a while back but my God it was challenging, tough and hard work and I learnt a lot from it....my huge portfolio is still used for reference, we really had to look at child development in a serious way, do a age by age development chart and research an awful lot.

I enjoyed my tutor coming to assess me at home and although I took a long time to finish it...my fault really for letting it go that far....it was a good experience and an excellent preparation for my Foundation Degree
No way I could say it taught me to 'suck eggs'...I can appreciate the disinterest people are feeling but I also understand why those who were at Uni and had done a recent version of the NVQ 3 were not as prepared as I think I was

What a shame because it sounds to me like to make it more accessible they have also diluted its content....lets see what the new Level 3 will offer

Thanks Goatgirl....I thought it was...maybe I will go down that route too and deviate from childcare