How to sort this?

**smurfette** · 09-10-2013, 11:11 AM

I have two little ones with older siblings in school / playschool . Parent 1 has been with me a long time so not worried about her she will prob still send Lo during hols or take off to family and still pay. However parent 2 doesn't seem to have thought about it (though I have wondered!) she is a part time French teacher and I have Lo one full day a week while she teaches and one half day while she preps. She was just collecting and said I don't need you half term. So I took chance and said yes was wondering about that because I would normally charge if you are off and she said yes well the Monday is a bank holiday so I will probably pay you that (?!)

Now what to do? I never thought of it Til after she started, would normally charge half fees for holidays or a higher rate which I can't really do now., little one will get his free hours next sept so anticipate losing him anyway in June before the hols. Will take time off myself in December so it's really only Easter and two mid terms, not a whole lot of money and will be glad of it being quieter really so should I just leave it?!!

**tulip0803** · 09-10-2013, 12:43 PM

On a "normal" contract I charge fully for all contracted hours whether the child comes or not if I am available BUT I have a teacher and I charge her 1/2 contracted fee for school holidays and full fee if she decides to use the space. During term-time I charge fully for absences. I have this in my contract with her.

**smurfette** · 09-10-2013, 01:33 PM

Thanks for reply yes she signed a contract and never said she wouldn't want me holiday time .. Thinking about it now I wonder if she just assumed she had to pay.. She did say I assume you will be closed Christmas anyway and there is only one days in the holidays I am not that would affect her, two days e before Christmas so maybe she might be glad of time to finish up!

Just feel I didn't handle well, I was a bit taken aback and sort of said well I Nornally charge if not here. Should Reallly have said something different, like thats Nice! turns out they are away but i jumped To conclusion she just didnt want to pay.. she didnt mention the half day Wednesday just said well the Monday is bank Hol so will be paying you anyway.

She is lovely and kid is great and we get on well, want to be fair and not make an issue unnecessarily but she should have said surely if she didnt want hols?!!

**tulip0803** · 09-10-2013, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by murphf

She is lovely and kid is great and we get on well, want to be fair and not make an issue unnecessarily but she should have said surely if she didnt want hols?!!

My teacher didn't tell me I had to ask her. Must admit since LO turned one (year and 1/2 ago) I have her 1-2 days a week in the hols anyway as Mum "wants to get on"

**bunyip** · 09-10-2013, 03:50 PM

Poor you, Murphf.

Strictly speaking, it's down to what's in your contract, which I'm guessing does not say "term time only" or you'd not be posting here. In that sense, you've probably every right to expect attendance/payment. But I imagine that might well cause friction. It's the eternal occupational hazard of CMing: no matter how much you're in the right, the parent can still make trouble if they don't get what they want and think is theirs by right.

This is the danger with assumptions. You assumed the mum would send during the holidays cos she didn't say otherwise. Mum assumed you "knew" (without her bothering to say

) that a teacher would not require childcare during the holidays.

Don't take this personally, cos I suspect it happens to a lot of CMs: eg. exactly how many discuss 'inset days' before the first one pops up and bites us on the bum? cos that nearly caught me out when I started.

From your post, it sounds like you're already part way resigned to accepting this one as a right-off to experience. Could you propose a contract review and get this formalised/changed? Or could you tell mum you'll waive it this time, but expect payment in future? I guess one alternative is to drop a rather heavy hint that you might 'let her go' to make way for a parent who'd pay all year round? (but only if you're in a position for her to react badly or call your bluff.)

**Tazmin68** · 09-10-2013, 03:56 PM

A number of my contracts are term time only. I do not charge for school holidays as I have other children who attend school holidays only. Should a term time only child wish to attend during holidays it is subject to me having a place available for that child and all are aware of this. This also enables me that should I be a bit quieter over the holidays spend quality time with my own two children.

**smurfette** · 09-10-2013, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by bunyip

Poor you, Murphf.

Strictly speaking, it's down to what's in your contract, which I'm guessing does not say "term time only" or you'd not be posting here. In that sense, you've probably every right to expect attendance/payment. But I imagine that might well cause friction. It's the eternal occupational hazard of CMing: no matter how much you're in the right, the parent can still make trouble if they don't get what they want and think is theirs by right.

This is the danger with assumptions. You assumed the mum would send during the holidays cos she didn't say otherwise. Mum assumed you "knew" (without her bothering to say

) that a teacher would not require childcare during the holidays.

Don't take this personally, cos I suspect it happens to a lot of CMs: eg. exactly how many discuss 'inset days' before the first one pops up and bites us on the bum? cos that nearly caught me out when I started.

From your post, it sounds like you're already part way resigned to accepting this one as a right-off to experience. Could you propose a contract review and get this formalised/changed? Or could you tell mum you'll waive it this time, but expect payment in future? I guess one alternative is to drop a rather heavy hint that you might 'let her go' to make way for a parent who'd pay all year round? (but only if you're in a position for her to react badly or call your bluff.)

Thanks Bunyip dh is the same, never assume it make an ass out of you and me! To be honest I didn't assume she would need me I only thought about it after she signed and thought maybe she wouldn't but wanted to see if she would when she thought about it iyswim! She does so few hours (10 a week) and it does for nicely with other little ones so am not gonna risk losing her but I would have charged her more if I had known! Will learn my lesson in future as you say!

**smurfette** · 09-10-2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tazmin68

A number of my contracts are term time only. I do not charge for school holidays as I have other children who attend school holidays only. Should a term time only child wish to attend during holidays it is subject to me having a place available for that child and all are aware of this. This also enables me that should I be a bit quieter over the holidays spend quality time with my own two children.

Don't think I could fill holiday only care around here, I get a lot of enquiries cos its busy but never had one for this! Happy in one way to be quieter but need to see if finances are ok!

**smurfette** · 09-10-2013, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by tulip0803

My teacher didn't tell me I had to ask her. Must admit since LO turned one (year and 1/2 ago) I have her 1-2 days a week in the hols anyway as Mum "wants to get on"

That's what I thought might happen but she has an older one too so dunno (although she attends after school club so maybe..)

**smurfette** · 10-10-2013, 08:33 AM

Ok so I am thinking I might email her and ask her to think about what she needs for hols and offering half fees retainer if she doesn't need me.. Presume that would be positive for her but I suppose she could take it as paying more if she thought she didn't need to pay hols??

**shortstuff** · 10-10-2013, 08:46 AM

oh hun how awkward x

I send the parents an email with a 2 page form to fill in with details about the mindees before they start and the last bit is about term time only or all year round care. I am more than happy to share if you would like to pick bits out for your own use? that way there is never any doubt as the parents complete it.

**smurfette** · 10-10-2013, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Gail Tracey

oh hun how awkward x

I send the parents an email with a 2 page form to fill in with details about the mindees before they start and the last bit is about term time only or all year round care. I am more than happy to share if you would like to pick bits out for your own use? that way there is never any doubt as the parents complete it.

Thanks Gail would be great!

**shortstuff** · 10-10-2013, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by murphf

Thanks Gail would be great!

Pm me your email hun x n it shall be yours x when peppa time is finished lol x

**bunyip** · 10-10-2013, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by murphf

Ok so I am thinking I might email her and ask her to think about what she needs for hols and offering half fees retainer if she doesn't need me.. Presume that would be positive for her but I suppose she could take it as paying more if she thought she didn't need to pay hols??

I think you're wise to try and sort this out sooner rather than later: to clarify and formalise within a contract review.

You need to be firm yet gentle in how you put it to mum. Sure, it's her mistaken assumption that differs from the contract, but she will to a degree feel that she's being "charged extra" - so handle with care.

Gently point out that it is her mistake that she's signed to agreed contracted terms that don't tally with what she actually wanted. You do have every right to expect her to stick to what she's agreed, but are prepared to look at a new agreement in the interests of harmony. However, you're only going to make such concessions if mum is prepared to reciprocate and compromise too. The trick is to be clear that she c0ck3d up, but not to lay it on too thick. (To put it brutally, you're aiming to put yourself where you can "negotiate from a position of strength" You want her to feel like you're doing her a favour, rather than feel like you're ticking her off IYSWIM.

)

I'd explain that the status quo is not an option. The contract says she pays for all-year-round care. She doesn't want to do that, and (much as you'd like to help) you've no wish to upset other clients by waiving her holiday fee and thereby giving her preferential treatment. If you do it for one, then you'd have to do it for all, and your business could become unsustainable, forcing you to pack it all in and leave her with no care, etc. etc....

That leaves 3 main options:-

Decide it isn't going work to everyone's satisfaction and mutually agree notice. This is the least preferable outcome, so don't push it.
Retainer fee for holidays when care is not required. Bear in mind, you must actually be open, keep the place vacant for her, and be available for her to take that place if she wants to send the child on any of her usual days during the holiday (if she tops up the retainer to the usual fee, of course.) Include an agreement in the contract setting how much notice you need for her to actually take up the place: CMs do get caught out by this, having arranged to go out, only for mum to call the night before and say "I need you to have little Jimmy tomorrow."
Offer a TTO contract at a slightly higher rate. This involves no commitment for you to have a holiday place available should mum change her mind or have a sudden need, but you could offer holiday care on an ad hoc basis, allowing you to decide whether or not to accept any particular booking as and when requested.

None of this is what mum wants to hear. She wants to carry on deluding herself that she can have exactly what she wants - and she wants you to agree with her. But it might help her to accept the situation if she has some degree of choice in the matter. So much the better if you're able to offer her a choice between options 2&3 - but that will depend on what you're prepared to accept too.

Hope this helps.