Summatives not wanted

[littlemiss60561]

Hi,
I've just had a lj back from a parent . I went through it prior and explained the eyfs before her lo started. She has said she didn't realise her lo (20 months) would be being assessed against so much so young. She doesn't want anything other than for her lo to play and just be, without summative assessments , and development checks. She knows he's fine ( and he is..he's flying) . I explained that he does " just play" and can "just be" It's not a check list and it's me that does the observing and checking his development is progressing. She still doesn't want it.
I do a scrapbook style with little comments, and have main obs in a separate section so the children can look at the fun bits without knowing ( when older) that there's lots of writting about them. My ljs ( I don't think) don't look all official and scary. Pretty simple but contain what I think is needed.
I've said its an ofsted requirement and she joked £&@! ofsted! She'd knows the 2 yr check has to be done.
So, where do we stand If a parent doesn't want any documents? I don't want to have to be sly and keep assessments without her knowing. She loves all the photos, so will just a photo obs with simple write up be enough? ( will buy shares in ink!) No " official looking" forms and assessment sheets? I may be able to sweet talk her , she is lovely, but just wondered.
I have a another mum of 2 that has also said she doesn't want "all this fuss" . I've said its what changes us from babysitters but she wants her children here still ( luckily!) but thinks its sad we have to be so in depth.

[EmmaReed84]

Hmmm, this is a tricky one. I get that Mums choose CM because of the more homely environment side of things, then end up getting all this formal looking stuff and write ups about their child.

I would perhaps get Mum to write a letter to you expressing her wishes, then you can have a "meeting" with Mum and write up a letter with notes about the meeting what is agreed, then you can keep all this for Ofsted. You can perhaps compromise and carry on the scrapbook with little notes and "ideas for future play" kind of like next steps. This way you are still able to observe without being to official and you can also be seen "working with parents" to meet their needs also.

[bunyip]

Tbh I strongly believe that most parents are happy enough to leave their darlings somewhere they'll be happy and to get them back alive at the end of the day: "alive and in one piece" being regarded as something of a bonus. It fills those awkward years before they can join that great free babysitting service, commonly known as 'school.'

Just keep the parental discussions relaxed and focussed on what the lo is doing, and asking if mum is happy with things. I'd give her copies of brief summative assessments, concentrating on reassuring her that her lo is making good progress and that you can confirm there is "no cause for concern." You might just be able to persuade mum that, whilst it looks like a lot of fuss right now, it will make a lot more sense when lo starts school, and that the paperwork you're providing will form the basis of her starting points for development at school.

Good luck, .

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I have 2 sets of parents who have asked me to stop. One is a teacher and one a police officer, they know their children and think its nuts what we have to do, the PO parent said she sends her kids to me for home care, she said children are institutionalised much too young as it is and really disagrees what is happening to younger children. She has even told me she would be happy if I deregistered!

I obviously continue, but I think it shows the strength of feelings for a lot of parents.

[Simona]

I find this very confusing as EY providers have always done a summary of children's progress in different ways

LJ are, after all, a way of showing how a child is progressing...so I wonder if the introduction of the Progress check has triggered concerns from parents about children being regularly assessed? observing a child is an assessment of what they can do and what we want them to do next.
or are parents concerned we are 'testing' them?...the latter maybe true especially with the various campaigns going on about how our children are tested to destruction.

If we look at any child development books written years and years ago assessment is part of good practice...Tina Bruce's book was written ages ago and republished a few times...assessment is in there
Any NVQ or Degree has assessment as part of our expertise...it is not new.

All models of childcare such as HighScope, Reggio Emilia or Montessori have assessment of learning...maybe we need to discuss with parents the reason for the assessment and its aim and make sure it is not interpret it as 'testing'?

What do you think?

[lilac_dragon]

6 years ago I had a parent who was a Social Worker. She was also of the opinion that she didn't want her child's progress recorded in any way other than verbally at pickup time.eg "almost crawled today" " counted 1,2 when we played with the threading buttons" etc
I argued the point that I would LOVE to not do paperwork but it was a requirement for me and I had no option.
She asked me to check with Ofsted whether she could give me a letter stating how she felt, and that she only wanted me to keep her check in and out times, record of any injuries, medication forms, but that's all, and to ask if Ofsted would accept that.
They said a flat No, and that if I didn't record the child's progress then I was in breach of the regulations and would be in danger of losing my registration.
They argued that the parent couldn't make that decision about their child.
The Social Workers response to that comment was to hand in her notice and she stayed at home until her child started school.

[sing-low]

6 years ago I had a parent who was a Social Worker. She was also of the opinion that she didn't want her child's progress recorded in any way other than verbally at pickup time.eg "almost crawled today" " counted 1,2 when we played with the threading buttons" etc
I argued the point that I would LOVE to not do paperwork but it was a requirement for me and I had no option.
She asked me to check with Ofsted whether she could give me a letter stating how she felt, and that she only wanted me to keep her check in and out times, record of any injuries, medication forms, but that's all, and to ask if Ofsted would accept that.
They said a flat No, and that if I didn't record the child's progress then I was in breach of the regulations and would be in danger of losing my registration.
They argued that the parent couldn't make that decision about their child.
The Social Workers response to that comment was to hand in her notice and she stayed at home until her child started school.

Good for her!

I wonder if parents think that the assessments and paperwork are taking time away from caring for their children. I do all mine after-hours when the children have gone or when they're napping, so it doesn't impact on the time that I give to the LOs. But it does sap my energy and I feel I can't relax with them as I'm constantly working out where what they're doing fits into the EY outcomes.

[littlemiss60561]

Thanks for the replies. I had a chance to talk to her more in depth about her concerns. She doesn't like her lo being "in the system" and being tested already.believing the government want to take away their time to just play for the sake of playing without it ticking a box as such.
I likened the obs I do , to her simply noticing that x plays with a certain toy at a playgroup for ages so you may add it to their Xmas list .or x finds a 4 piece puzzle simple so you buy a bigger one. She seemed happy with that it was basically putting her child's development into a box.

[jadavi]

Little miss I like what you said about the Xmas list and will keep that for such a conversation I may have with parents on this issue. I also have had the same complaint from a teacher of Ey at school who most def did not want this done with her child. Tbh if I had to hand my 16 week child over because I had to work I don't think I would like it either. But there are very sensitive ways of doing it as little miss is finding out.
With my lo I started speech bubbles from photos 'look! I can ride a bike! Im going to try a scooter next' . This shows evidence of achievement (which is obvious which category of development matters without stating the obvious) it also shows next steps. I told Ofsted at my inspection why I was doing it this way and pitched it as careful partnership with the parent and they were fine with it and still gave me outstanding.
I think it feels like a nanny state to some parents and they want to feel in complete control of their little ones.

[jadavi]

I also hear what she is saying about Gmt not wanting to acknowledge that play for play's sake is good enough with box ticking.
It's like saying an artist is only valuable by the art he produces and the time spent practising is self indulgent and not socially productive.... It gives a chilling feeling.

[Simona]

I wonder if parents are worried at the amounts of paperwork we have to produce for them, read, comment and return?
is that the issue? or their worry we do it during working hours?
Worth reflecting if our paperwork is too much and reduce accordingly.

Like it or not we need to do the progress check as it is statutory...parents can, of course, ignore it, but Ofsted will be looking for it during an inspection.
LJ are not a requirement either but the inspector will still look for some form of assessment of children's progress...worth bearing in mind.
Should any additional needs be identified later on, say when a child starts school, we need to cover ourselves for that to happen and produce evidence we have recorded it.

The new inspection framework should guide us...maybe we need to share it with parents? I certainly will.

[dawn100]

In my lj's most of my obs are 1 sentence like crawled today for the first time, said the words dog and cat etc and only write next steps by some of them like tried to pull to standing next step encourage this interest etc and include photos. I then point out to parents that this will create a lovely folder of memories for the future because when they get older you'll forget or if you have more than one child muddle up who done what at what age. I also try to make the obs show the childs personality (where possible) I have also stopped calling them lj's to parents and on the front cover just have a photo and childs name and removed the words learning journals inside I List the areas of tge eyfs but for more detailed information I provide the address of a website which they can look at in their own time and ask me more about if they so choose.

[Simona]

Thanks for the replies. I had a chance to talk to her more in depth about her concerns. She doesn't like her lo being "in the system" and being tested already.believing the government want to take away their time to just play for the sake of playing without it ticking a box as such.
I likened the obs I do , to her simply noticing that x plays with a certain toy at a playgroup for ages so you may add it to their Xmas list .or x finds a 4 piece puzzle simple so you buy a bigger one. She seemed happy with that it was basically putting her child's development into a box.

So the parent was worried about her child being 'tested'...I am glad that was clarified as I suggested that maybe the reason

There is a difference between 'assessment' as the result of observations and 'testing' and I hope all parents are made aware of this and that they join with us in complaining to the govt about too much too soon

Maybe parents should sign the ECM petition !

[Ripeberry]

Makes you wonder if the UK is the only country that expects this of their under 5 yr olds? Do they have to complete paperwork in France or Norway?

[Simona]

Please read the new inspection framework particularly page 11 and 12 which states precisely what inspectors want to see in terms of assessment and how this is shared with the parents

[rickysmiths]

I don't do and never have done loads of assessments.

I think there is a lot of fuss made over recording a child's progress and it scares the living daylights out of parents.

A Learning Journal is a record of the time their child is with me. Mine have lots of photos in them and lots of post it notes and stories about what we have been doing and where we have been and examples of the child's work. I then use the excellent Pacey stickers to highlight the areas of learning. I no longer use a 'formal' sheet for observations these are in evidence in spadefuls through the LJ where I will highlight and follow through on any next steps that present themselves .

There is a one page of A4 explanation sheet of the areas of learning along with the sticker in the front of the LJ for the parents and a copy of the information booklet about EYFS. The only Formal Assessment I do is the 2 yr check and with that I have a meeting with the parents and discuss where their child is and how they are developing. It is a very informal chat and I go through the LJ at this time and so can demonstrate if I have any concerns or how well their child is doing and how much they enjoy themselves. It takes me about half an hour at most to complete the 2 yr check prior to the parents visit and about the same with the parents.

Chill everyone. Ofsted want to know you know your children. They will enjoy looking at your LJs but they do not expect to see reams and reams of Summative or any other type of assessments. You all would do well to go and look at what local Pre Schools, very expensive Day Nurseries and Reception Teachers do. I think you might all be shocked.

[loocyloo]

I don't do and never have done loads of assessments.

I think there is a lot of fuss made over recording a child's progress and it scares the living daylights out of parents.

A Learning Journal is a record of the time their child is with me. Mine have lots of photos in them and lots of post it notes and stories about what we have been doing and where we have been and examples of the child's work. I then use the excellent Pacey stickers to highlight the areas of learning. I no longer use a 'formal' sheet for observations these are in evidence in spadefuls through the LJ where I will highlight and follow through on any next steps that present themselves .

There is a one page of A4 explanation sheet of the areas of learning along with the sticker in the front of the LJ for the parents and a copy of the information booklet about EYFS. The only Formal Assessment I do is the 2 yr check and with that I have a meeting with the parents and discuss where their child is and how they are developing. It is a very informal chat and I go through the LJ at this time and so can demonstrate if I have any concerns or how well their child is doing and how much they enjoy themselves. It takes me about half an hour at most to complete the 2 yr check prior to the parents visit and about the same with the parents.

Chill everyone. Ofsted want to know you know your children. They will enjoy looking at your LJs but they do not expect to see reams and reams of Summative or any other type of assessments. You all would do well to go and look at what local Pre Schools, very expensive Day Nurseries and Reception Teachers do. I think you might all be shocked.

I currently do a summative assessment every 6 mths or so...But I'm finding them binding so am in the process of creating an even simpler form to be looked at in conjuction with LJ ( I call them scrapbooks with the parents ) which will just list ideas for next steps for me and ideas parents can do at home ( and it's usually things they are already doing just extended a bit! )

[lisa1968]

I don't do and never have done loads of assessments.

I think there is a lot of fuss made over recording a child's progress and it scares the living daylights out of parents.

A Learning Journal is a record of the time their child is with me. Mine have lots of photos in them and lots of post it notes and stories about what we have been doing and where we have been and examples of the child's work. I then use the excellent Pacey stickers to highlight the areas of learning. I no longer use a 'formal' sheet for observations these are in evidence in spadefuls through the LJ where I will highlight and follow through on any next steps that present themselves .

There is a one page of A4 explanation sheet of the areas of learning along with the sticker in the front of the LJ for the parents and a copy of the information booklet about EYFS. The only Formal Assessment I do is the 2 yr check and with that I have a meeting with the parents and discuss where their child is and how they are developing. It is a very informal chat and I go through the LJ at this time and so can demonstrate if I have any concerns or how well their child is doing and how much they enjoy themselves. It takes me about half an hour at most to complete the 2 yr check prior to the parents visit and about the same with the parents.

Chill everyone. Ofsted want to know you know your children. They will enjoy looking at your LJs but they do not expect to see reams and reams of Summative or any other type of assessments. You all would do well to go and look at what local Pre Schools, very expensive Day Nurseries and Reception Teachers do. I think you might all be shocked.

This has long been an argument with me!!! As minders, we are expected to do assessments etc and the good old individual planning, but pre schools etc don't do it.They can't! It's impossible!How can a nursery/pre-school/reception teacher POSSIBLY do individual planning for every child, every day?They can't!
Our local pre school and nursery send little scrap books home at the end of the year but there is absolutely nothing in them to suggest that observations,next steps,individual planning and assessments are being done.One rule for one.......

[Simona]

I currently do a summative assessment every 6 mths or so...But I'm finding them binding so am in the process of creating an even simpler form to be looked at in conjuction with LJ ( I call them scrapbooks with the parents ) which will just list ideas for next steps for me and ideas parents can do at home ( and it's usually things they are already doing just extended a bit! )

I like that Loocyloo...finding a way to simplify things and reducing the burden and time it takes to complete these requirements

I don't think anyone has ever asked for endless assessments...the aim is to summarise what the child is doing and point to any areas of concern so children can have help if necessary...having said that when we do the help is so slow to arrive that children start school with problems because the system can't cope.

In the PLA Under 5 Magazine there is a wonderful article on the integration of health and education which means the way we do the Progress check will change...so use a simple system now because change is on the way again!!!

[littlemiss60561]

My sons nursery do everything simplified. They showed me the communication tool they've now got to do and I said I've been doing them for ages! They don't do the emotional development one. I get a diary update once a week and a brief summary once in the last year. This is fine and I am happy enough with this , but I do far more with mine and I'm wondering why!