funding 3~4 year olds

[yummyripples]

Is it right from Sept this year all minders can offer 3-4 year funding?

[amylouise867]

I think it's child minders who have good and outstanding grades will automatically be allowed to yes x

[AliceK]

I think it's child minders who have good and outstanding grades will automatically be allowed to yes x

Yes that's how I understand it too.

xx

[marie55]

This is the statutory guidance for LA's from September. Page 10 has the funding criteria x
http://media.education.gov.uk/assets...ce%20final.pdf

[amylouise867]

This is the statutory guidance for LA's from September. Page 10 has the funding criteria x
http://media.education.gov.uk/assets...ce%20final.pdf

Thanks Marie will have a good read of this with my quiet cupa before bed tonight x

[rickysmiths]

I think it's child minders who have good and outstanding grades will automatically be allowed to yes x

That is only for those if offer 2yr funding and only if that quality of childcare is available.

[Simona]

Worth reading these points to be sure

A3.3 Fund places for two-, three- and four-year old children attending any provider
rated ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ by Ofsted (see also A4.9). (page 10)

A3.5 Only fund two-year-old children in ‘satisfactory/requires improvement’ providers
where there is not sufficient accessible ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ provision. (page 10)



Following the DfE publication all LAs will have to amend their own Code of Practice and should inform cms very soon how to draw the funding for those cms who have not done it before...in other words cms who are not in a network

If you have 3 and 4 year olds in your setting now you should draw the funding for them from September even if no 2 year olds are on your register...this bit is not clearly stated

[madredann]

How do you go about getting the funding do you have to approach the lea and get a form to fill in and how do they pay it to you is it monthly or weekly?

[Simona]

Your LA will let you know very soon how to apply for funding...all should be in place before September

Each LA will pay differently but it should be in advance and straight into your bank account and possibly a term in advance but lets not hold our breath they will standardise this!

Let us know if you have trouble

[Tazmin68]

In Birmingham you complete estimate forms about 3 weeks before start of term, get paid 80 per cent about two weeks in, there is a head count form that we complete half way though term and final payment is made about 2 weeks before end of term.
However the la is still going by their own criteria to be acredited at the moment as usual it will be a last minute change when the 15 hours was changing to be provided over 2 days despite us knowing it could be from the September it still took them until the October to confirm to us.

[Simona]

In Birmingham you complete estimate forms about 3 weeks before start of term, get paid 80 per cent about two weeks in, there is a head count form that we complete half way though term and final payment is made about 2 weeks before end of term.
However the la is still going by their own criteria to be acredited at the moment as usual it will be a last minute change when the 15 hours was changing to be provided over 2 days despite us knowing it could be from the September it still took them until the October to confirm to us.

Did they say why they insist on 'Accreditation'?
there is nothing in the guidance that says they should not ask cms to become accredited....just that they have to 'limit' the conditions they impose...
this is another documents like the EYFS that will be open to individual interpretations and LAs conditions.

[christine e]

In Birmingham you complete estimate forms about 3 weeks before start of term, get paid 80 per cent about two weeks in, there is a head count form that we complete half way though term and final payment is made about 2 weeks before end of term.
However the la is still going by their own criteria to be acredited at the moment as usual it will be a last minute change when the 15 hours was changing to be provided over 2 days despite us knowing it could be from the September it still took them until the October to confirm to us.

In Nottinghamshire estimate form completed a few weeks before new term (for autumn term estimate form should be sent to arrive by 31st July) 70% of money paid about a week in to new term and remaining 30% was paid about 3 to 4 weeks ago.

[rickysmiths]

Worth reading these points to be sure

A3.3 Fund places for two-, three- and four-year old children attending any provider
rated ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ by Ofsted (see also A4.9). (page 10)

A3.5 Only fund two-year-old children in ‘satisfactory/requires improvement’ providers
where there is not sufficient accessible ‘good’ or ‘outstanding’ provision. (page 10)



Following the DfE publication all LAs will have to amend their own Code of Practice and should inform cms very soon how to draw the funding for those cms who have not done it before...in other words cms who are not in a network

If you have 3 and 4 year olds in your setting now you should draw the funding for them from September even if no 2 year olds are on your register...this bit is not clearly stated

We have not had Networks in our County for a number of years so in order to draw the funding you have not been a member of one. They were found to be too far apart to be able to allow cm to offer funding through the County so they were very exclusive and as such were got rid of.

All 3-4 yr old are entitled to the funding so it is logical that if you have qualifying children in your setting and they are not accessing the funding elsewhere they should be able to with you.

However it is clearly different for the 2 year funding because this is not accessible for all but only for the most disadvantaged and the 2 year olds in are care may well not meet these criteria, though of course if we feel they do we should be directing their parents to their HV or CC so they may find out if they can access it and be directed through the correct procedure to enable this.

In our County at present and for the last year the 'qualification' to become Accredited has been that you have a Level 3 and are Good or Outstanding. This is for cm only as Satisfactory Graded Private Day Nurseries can offer the funding so it is a two tier system!!

[rickysmiths]

Did they say why they insist on 'Accreditation'?
there is nothing in the guidance that says they should not ask cms to become accredited....just that they have to 'limit' the conditions they impose...
this is another documents like the EYFS that will be open to individual interpretations and LAs conditions.

But the document lists the limits! I actually think it is quite clear.

[madredann]

Thank you so much for the useful information thank god for this forum as without it alot of us would be left in the dark about alot of things x

[bunyip]

In Nottinghamshire estimate form completed a few weeks before new term (for autumn term estimate form should be sent to arrive by 31st July) 70% of money paid about a week in to new term and remaining 30% was paid about 3 to 4 weeks ago.

Hi Christine

We seem to have a rather chaotic situation in the county over this, IME.

I've been seeking to provide funded places ever since my inspection. I was advised to complete the accreditation process although, at the time, there was no accreditation process, due to it being "under consultation" as the LA was handing over responsibility to the local NCMA office. DO advised me to proceed with the level 3 diploma as that was very likely to be a minimum requirement.

Within the last 7 days I have:

1. Finished the (interminably tedious) diploma course.
2. Booked an appointment with DO to kick off the accreditation process.
3. Cancelled the above appointment cos we both thought the new regulations would negate the need for accreditation (i.e. 3-4yo funding would automatically be bestowed upon Good?Outstanding CMs.)
4. Reinstated the appointment cos the LA are being cagey and appear keen to find a way of continuing to apply conditions within the terms of the new system (reading between the lines, they appear to be looking for a loophole to continue doing what they're doing )

Am now concerned as to whether I still have 'suitable premises' as banging my head against so many brick walls is probably making my house structurally unsafe.

[madredann]

It is totally unacceptable that these people are screwing with everyones lively hoods I plan in advance I advertise to fill upcoming spaces so that i have enough money to pay my mortgage, how can I do that if I dont know what to tell parents I have 4 children to consider and these guys dont know their **** from their elbows for gods sake I also have a child that has just left school and now has to go to college for a year (not that its a bad thing but another government decision that I have to pay extra for) bus fayre alone is going to cost me £300 a year I hate been disorganised! I feel so sorry for you Bunyip and others that have had to go through a lengthy process x

[miffy]

Hi Christine

We seem to have a rather chaotic situation in the county over this, IME.

I've been seeking to provide funded places ever since my inspection. I was advised to complete the accreditation process although, at the time, there was no accreditation process, due to it being "under consultation" as the LA was handing over responsibility to the local NCMA office. DO advised me to proceed with the level 3 diploma as that was very likely to be a minimum requirement.

Within the last 7 days I have:

1. Finished the (interminably tedious) diploma course.
2. Booked an appointment with DO to kick off the accreditation process.
3. Cancelled the above appointment cos we both thought the new regulations would negate the need for accreditation (i.e. 3-4yo funding would automatically be bestowed upon Good?Outstanding CMs.)
4. Reinstated the appointment cos the LA are being cagey and appear keen to find a way of continuing to apply conditions within the terms of the new system (reading between the lines, they appear to be looking for a loophole to continue doing what they're doing )

Am now concerned as to whether I still have 'suitable premises' as banging my head against so many brick walls is probably making my house structurally unsafe.

Hi Bunyip

I have just received the funding forms from Notts CC for Autumn term and noticed that the following sentence has been added to the bottom of the calendar

"Childminders who are only registered for 2 year funding cannot automatically be registered for 3 & 4 year funding unless they are accredited through PACEY."

Seems clear enough that Notts CC are still insisting on accreditation - whether or not they should be I am not sure!

Not sure if that is any help to you or not!

Miffy xx

[MaffAnna]

Marie I love you! But my DO will hate it (and me, even more )

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

[bunyip]

Thanks for the info, Miffy.

The LA won't even send me the paperwork so I can start to plan or explain to parents how it might work if I live long enough to see it happen. (I even offered to send them a SSAE cos they whinged about the expense of sending it out to individual CMs. ) I think we're just an inconvenience, compared with the administrative "efficiency" of farming dozens of lo's in a nursery.

I'm going to press ahead with the accreditation process. My reasoning is that might be quicker than waiting for the county to get its backside in gear and do what the new guidelines tell them to do. With my luck so far, I fully expect to be accredited the day before accreditation is scrapped and replaced with the new system.

Well, anything for a weird life..............................