Confused about ratios with my new business!!

**Little Rhinos** · 07-07-2013, 04:42 PM

I need some advice please?

Ok, I have a 4 year old and an 18 month old. I have agreed to have a 2 year old and another 4 year old as holiday care 2 days a week till Sept (so that's 2 toddlers and 2 four year olds).

I also have a 1 year old on 2 different days (so that's 2 toddlers and 1 four year old).

My problem is, the 1 year old also needs care the last Thursday of every month - so that would be 3 toddlers and 2 four years old - is that allowed or not? Do the four year olds count as rising five's? I'm so confused and Ofsted told me to refer to the guidelines which are confusing!

Can anyone help?

With it being a new business I don't want to get it all wrong!

**FussyElmo** · 07-07-2013, 04:50 PM

When are the 4yos in full time education?

**vikiwizz** · 07-07-2013, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by FussyElmo

When are the 4yos in full time education?

My nephew was born on the 31st Aug so turned four and then 5 days later went into full time education

**Koala** · 07-07-2013, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by vikiwizz

My nephew was born on the 31st Aug so turned four and then 5 days later went into full time education

OMG.

I hate the way our school intake system works. it's

in fact I don't like the school system much at all!

**vikiwizz** · 07-07-2013, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Koala

OMG.

I hate the way our school intake system works. it's

in fact I don't like the school system much at all!

I know, he was far too young really, but I think she was told he didn't have to start as officially you don't have to be in full time education utill the term after your 5 but it would have meant him missing reception and going straight into year one. I think even now he still struggles as 4 is just too young to start school.

**Stapleton83** · 07-07-2013, 09:07 PM

Sorry I am still confused are the 4 year olds already going to school or due to go up in September? I know I am probably being dim but it is getting late and I need to review some of my policies in a mo!

Sam x

**Little Rhinos** · 07-07-2013, 09:24 PM

Hiya, the 4 year olds were 4 this month so not in school till Sept.

**Little Rhinos** · 07-07-2013, 09:27 PM

Also, my 2 are siblings, and the 2 girls are siblings if that makes a diff.

**FussyElmo** · 07-07-2013, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Little Rhinos

Also, my 2 are siblings, and the 2 girls are siblings if that makes a diff.

Sorry you cant take the two new ones then as that will be 4 under 5 and its for new business.

**Mouse** · 07-07-2013, 09:37 PM

If you are in England you can generally have 6 children under the age of 8, including your own. Of those 6, only 3 can be pre-school children.

If you have 2 children of your own who don't go to school, it means you only have one early years place left. You couldn't take on 2 children, even if they are siblings. You cannot go over the maximum of 3 early years children for new business, so should only be having one minded early years child at any one time.

A 4 or 5 year old counts as a rising 5 (although it isn't called that any more) once they are attending full time school. If the 4yr olds start full time school this Sept, they will count as being in the older age bracket once they are going 5 full days a week. Once they are doing that, they carry on counting as being out of the EY age bracket for all holidays etc. Unfortunately you can;t count them as being older for this holiday as they haven't started school yet.

**blue bear** · 07-07-2013, 09:42 PM

I'm taking it that you live in England.

You have
18 month (own)
2 year
4 year (own)
4 year sibling of two year old.

You will need a risk assessment to vary your numbers, I'm assuming under continuation of care for the siblings? Did the siblings start at the same time? ( didn't think you could do a variation for new business even if they are siblings)

You also have a one year old that attends on days the siblings don't and the one year old wants extra days which would be when siblings are in attendance

Reading the rules it states for exceptional reasons you can vary numbers but never more than 6 under 8 so in theory the overlap is allowed (thats assuming the original variation for siblings was allowed but if they started at the same time it would not have been) but that's an awful lot of very young children are you sure you would want to do it?

For all variations consider would ofsted allow it, would you be able to prove during an inspection that the needs of all the children are being met In every way?

The four year olds will count as rising fives once they are in full time education (9-3 Monday to Friday)