Contracts for Independent Childminders

[SammySplodger]

Re: Contracts for Independent Childminders

Do you buy them 'off the shelf', eg: NCMA / PACEY?
If yes to the above - how do you feel about using these now things have changed re: PACEY?

Or do you have you own?
If so, where did you get the wording from?

Do you think it would be helpful to have some draft contract wording linked on the Independent Childminders website?

Is there anything 'new' we might need to add into our existing contracts once the Agencies are up and running? Can anyone think of any possible new 'implications' that might need to be covered by our contracts?
....I'm hoping the answer to this is 'No, I can't think of anything and I really don't know what you mean Sammy Splodger :-) ....

Sorry if this appears to be another 'obvious' set of questions, but it would be helpful to know! You never know, it might throw something up.

Sarah: have we already got this one ready to link up to somewhere, or is it another action point?
Ta :-)

[miffy]

I've always been an NCMA member and so have used their contracts - I understand if you don't then NCMA legal team won't represent you if things go wrong.

If I remain independent then as long as I am still an NCMA member I would use their contracts. I can't see why I would need to use a different contract or am I missing something?

Miffy xx

[mum26]

I am the same as Miffy and have always been a member of NCMA (PACEY) and used their contracts. Will continue to do so in the future as long as I am a member.

[rickysmiths]

This is all daft at the moment because we can't possibly know what is going to happen or how.

I really have too much else to be concerned with to worry about this yet.

[sarah707]

Excellent question Sammy - we may well need to broaden it to other paperwork too - and there are a lot of samples and ideas for contents in free resources.

I have already collated links to free info about learning journeys

I know contracts / permissions etc are personal to the childminder - but I have already been working on something generic for childcare.co.uk gold members - great minds and all that!!

I can easily adapt it for the forum too with a link off the new Independent Childminders - Supporting each other website

[Simona]

Sammy Your question is a bit confusing???...of course Independent cms WILL need a contract for obvious reasons...but why worry about something that cannot change unless you intend to give up self employment?

I have my own, devised and updates over the last 20 years...it is a comprehensive document, all inclusive, even my solicitor had little to amend when he put his stamp of approval on it
A contract is a legally binding document...Pacey may help you if you have problems but any contract, as long as signed by both parties, is valid even if it is written on a piece of loo paper and will stand in any court!!

[sarah707]

This is all daft at the moment because we can't possibly know what is going to happen or how.

I really have too much else to be concerned with to worry about this yet.

The Govt are pushing ahead with agencies Ricky - yes a few of us are still fighting but they are riding roughshod over our concerns and / or totally ignoring us.

There aren't enough people writing letters / lobbying / asking questions etc to show the strength of feeling unfortunately.

I am one of only 6 published childminder responses on the Govt 'have your say' website - childmindinghelp.co.uk/haveyoursay - that is simply NOT enough.

My 30+ page analysis of the 'More Great Childcare' document was received and I got a letter back on Friday telling me there were changes coming - and advising me to read 'More great Childcare' for more details

So..... if childminders are not prepared to join up en masse and show their strength of feeling - then we on the Forum have to be ready to support them through the changes.

Sam is asking questions in preparation for the new website - and the support the Forum will be giving independent childminders.

If a thread gets a lot of answers then we know people want help in that area - like the one the other day about disseminating information. We are already working on how to do that more effectively.

If a thread doesn't get many answers or they are negative like this one then we know it's not something worrying our Forum members and we won't waste our time doing anything about it - because other areas of provision are more pressing.

I appreciate you are busy Ricky - as are we all - perhaps if you just answer the ones you feel you might need support with in the future??

[SammySplodger]

I've always been an NCMA member and so have used their contracts - I understand if you don't then NCMA legal team won't represent you if things go wrong.

If I remain independent then as long as I am still an NCMA member I would use their contracts. I can't see why I would need to use a different contract or am I missing something?

Miffy xx

I'm exactly the same & in answer to your question: we don't know yet!

These questions are designed to get us thinking. But don't worry - once we find out answers, it will all be linked up to the website :-)

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This could be another year yet and I think you are getting organised about something that hasn't gone through Government yet.

The agencies need to be formed (only discussion at the moment about how/why etc) and then the ideas need to go to a consulting group, back to Government, trials and if found to work legislation.

I don't think anything will change for Independent Childminders whereas agencies I can forsee will have employed childminders and all the set up and changes will be with them

[angeldelight]

I've always been an NCMA member and so have used their contracts - I understand if you don't then NCMA legal team won't represent you if things go wrong.

If I remain independent then as long as I am still an NCMA member I would use their contracts. I can't see why I would need to use a different contract or am I missing something?

Miffy xx

I agree with you Miffy I use MM but will continue to do so .

Am I missing something ...I feel it's just making people panic tbh

Why on earth would we need different contracts

Confused

Angel xx

[SammySplodger]

I am sorry if it appears that I am confusing people. I am just trying to collate the 'how to' parts of our website. We will be covering ALL aspects of our business and how to stay Independent (linking back to the forum pages where relevant).

The questions are designed to get us thinking. And, YES, to some questions the answer might be that there is 'no change'.

I am doing two things on purpose:
1) asking obvious questions, for the benefit of non-experts
2) playing devils advocate
...because I don't want us to miss anything.

Believe me: there is method in my madness.
:-)

If you don't wish to answer a question (for whatever reason), then simply ignore it! That in itself is useful, because it means we probably don't need to include it in the website.

[blue bear]

I use MM contracts, I prefer off the shelf to writing my own,feels like you have a back up of an expert behind you.

[Simona]

Blue Bear I am no expert but a contract has to reflect what you wish to mutually agree with parents and is pertinent to your setting...
The expert was paid to approve it
Many cms have a website, a prospectus maybe and often have to add terms and conditions that reflect their practice because 'off the shelf' contract are more generally written

I started with a few pages when I run my own pre-school and now have something that I can adapt just by opening the document...since EYFS 2008 I have adapted it to all the changes and since EYFS 12 it has been tweaked many times...

Other things it does: it is my Copyright, saves me money and it saves me having to add several pieces of paperwork (which I know cms who use off the shelf ones have to do) that are required under the Welfare Requirements because they are all in one and mutually agreed...
of course it works for me and may not be what everyone wants to do...that's the perk of being independent and running our business!

The question of contracts is pertinent and have had it on my list for a long time but in a different context?

[hectors house]

I am currently using up my old NCMA contracts even though I now have my insurance through MM - I was just assuming that NCMA (PACEY) or MM would amend the wording on their contracts for Independent childminders.

For those who choose the agency route - would they do the contracts or would the agency (is this some of the paperwork that the agencies are offering to do?) - not that I care - as I am STAYING INDEPENDENT!!

[Simona]

'Independent' is a label we have given ourselves to distinguish us from those who go under an agency? but the agency may allow cms to remain independent/self employed? intriguing I feel
No one can add that word to a contract as yet for obvious reasons...are independent cms self employed? if cms believe so then they can act accordingly as owner/managers of their business...I am clear on that and it is my view of course

[SammySplodger]

I am currently using up my old NCMA contracts even though I now have my insurance through MM - I was just assuming that NCMA (PACEY) or MM would amend the wording on their contracts for Independent childminders.

For those who choose the agency route - would they do the contracts or would the agency (is this some of the paperwork that the agencies are offering to do?) - not that I care - as I am STAYING INDEPENDENT!!

Yes - the wording will be amended on the generic PACEY & MM contracts - but I want to know how / what will be different about them, so we can be aware of it and reflect this if we choose to do our own.

Personally, I intend to carry on with my old NCMA ones for the time being (I believe they are valid for another year), with a view to writing my own and having separate insurance in place by the time my existing contracts are renewed (Jan/Feb). So: no rush - but something to keep in mind as things develop.

The other thing that I want us all to be aware of is whether the Agencies (if they produce contracts for Parents) will have anything 'preferable' for ie: an advantage we might not be offerIng, for example: not having to pay for Bank Holidays.

It may seem at times like I an writing boring unnecessary detail, but it's all about planning for sustainability. All if these relatively minor points will add up to a whole, which Parents / customers will need to weigh up. And I don't want us to be disadvantaged or 'behind'.

[SammySplodger]

'Independent' is a label we have given ourselves to distinguish us from those who go under an agency? but the agency may allow cms to remain independent/self employed? intriguing I feel
No one can add that word to a contract as yet for obvious reasons...are independent cms self employed? if cms believe so then they can act accordingly as owner/managers of their business...I am clear on that and it is my view of course

That's exactly it Simona - I'm expecting to add this wording into my new contracts (in several months time) to make it crystal clear for Parents.
ie: I am an Independent, Ofsted registered Childminder. I am self employed. I do not belong to an Agency.

[loocyloo]

i use ncma/pacey contracts and will continue to do so for as long as i am a member. i do amend them slightly, but having used my own in the past, parents seem to take more notice of 'official' looking contracts, rather than those i printed at home !

[lilac_dragon]

I've always been an NCMA member and so have used their contracts - I understand if you don't then NCMA legal team won't represent you if things go wrong.

If I remain independent then as long as I am still an NCMA member I would use their contracts. I can't see why I would need to use a different contract or am I missing something?

Miffy xx

I use NCMA ones for the same reason. I used to have my own, and they've been copied and used by loads of people including Childminding Tutors, but NCMA refused to advise me on something when I admitted that I didn't use their contracts.
I think if we have our own contracts as "Independent" Childminders we will have to be aware if our Insurance is with NCMA/PACEY that they won't help us.

[Simona]

I feel we need to be sure what we are saying here so not to confuse or worry others when you put your questions forward

You can only use ncma contracts for a year from their launch...so only until next March as they launched this March
All that has changed 'at present' is the new brand name...
neither Pacey or MM intend to write a new contract for 'independent' cms as there is no need and obvious why

Your own contract is as valid as any ncma or MM...otherwise my solicitor would have said otherwise
it depends on what type of contract you write...if it is professional, pertinent to the service you provide and well written it has the same value as anyone else's...ask any Small Claim Court and they will confirm that when they deal with any contract dispute

I would suggest you call Pacey and MM as I have done and my accountant too and all will be clarified
What I have been told by all 3 parties confirms what I said before that I am clear of what I need to do...make sure you are too if you are planning ahead!

Maybe we should research what being independent means...it appears it is all in the title we use