Caring for 4 children under four!

[Smileyface]

Hello everyone just after some advice under the new ofsted rules....
I currently care for a boy of 2 1/2 5 days i also have my own two children jake who is 3 at nursery (part time) and poppy whos 1.
Ive been asked by a parent if i can have her 15 month son same age my daughter for two full days? is this possible is there anything extra (paperwork) i need to do? or just normal obs?
As its only for two days i can plan this in advance to make it work for all children at different age stages.
Many thanks all your advice welcomne
Kirsty

[LauraS]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't beleive that you can. You can't make an exception to your ratios in order to take on new business in this way. You won't have two spaces until your son is 4 and starts to attend school full time

[suebill]

Yes I agree. You can only have more than the 3 children if it was to take on a sibling of a child your already mind, for the reason of ensuring continuity of care

[TAZ]

I agree with LauraS.

You can only increase the number of children in the EYFS in specific circumstances for example the child you currently mind has a sibling who now requires childcare. Or in another situation, if you had 2 part time children who don't attend at the same times and then 1 of them needs an increase of hours or change in days which means there is now an overlap - this would be covered under continuity of care for the 2 children.

The rules are exactly the same as they were pre Sept 2012, just now you don't need to approach Ofsted for a variation.

[bunyip]

AFAIK you can only increase your numbers for 'new business' by taking on an assitant, subject to all the rules that apply in that case. You'd have to satisfy the space requirements for your home, and many LA's would then require you to obtain planning permission. It might also affect insurance premiums (?) and, of course, the assistant would want to be paid.

This may all add up to a worthwhile proposition or just a costly PITA.

[Smileyface]

Thank you guys for replying, I called ofsted today and there response was I could if I could prove good enough care was given... I'd have to write and plan out and say why I've made the decision.
What's the worse that could happen?
It may only be one day over lap?
I'm really really confused its just not made clear enough for us...
Kirsty

[sarah707]

You will find all the answers in this document in forum free resources -

Changes to Conditions of Registration

[LauraS]

Thank you guys for replying, I called ofsted today and there response was I could if I could prove good enough care was given... I'd have to write and plan out and say why I've made the decision.
What's the worse that could happen?
It may only be one day over lap?
I'm really really confused its just not made clear enough for us...
Kirsty

The worst, I suppose, is that Ofsted pick up on it at your next inspection and grade you inadequate, as in one report I saw recently where a cm had four children for a very short overlap between one child being dropped off and another collected. The report said that there wasn't a care concern and the cm had risk assessed etc but was not operating correctly, basically. Is it worth it?

Or even that you work uninsured, as your insurance won't cover you for working outside the rules.

[LauraS]

Ps I'd get ofsted to put in writing that you can take on the children in exactly the situation you have described, to cover yourself, as the call centre seem to be endorsing something which doesn't fit the rules as they have been published. The call centre isn't very reliable and you need to cover your back and protect your registration.

[emma04]

I telephoned Ofsted 3 times to be sure on this issue. They informed me that I could care for 4 under fives providing:

• The parents were all happy with it
• I could provide adequate facilities and equipment to meet their needs
• I had a risk assessment in place

Ofsted also noted this on my registration account, should there be any problems in the future

I look after 3 mindees (2 x aged two and 1 aged one) plus my own dd who's two.

Two come Tue-Fri (Full time) and one comes Wed-Fri (half day Wed, full day Thurs and half day Friday)

I only actually have all four together for a whole day on a Thursday.

I find it manageable, but hard work.

[LauraS]

Ok, thanks Emma, I guess I misintepreted then. Good to know!

[FussyElmo]

No one is disputing you can have 4 under 5 in exceptional circumstances but new business is not classed as exceptional.

Ofsted will now tell you as long as you meet the criteria such as parents being happy etc and even if they note you have rang and asked the question if you grant yourself a variation for new business it will be your responability not ofsteds.

[Tazmin68]

No one is disputing you can have 4 under 5 in exceptional circumstances but new business is not classed as exceptional.

Ofsted will now tell you as long as you meet the criteria such as parents being happy etc and even if they note you have rang and asked the question if you grant yourself a variation for new business it will be your responability not ofsteds.

Hi

I would not take the risk as it is for new business not an exisiting child as I would not like to risk an inspector downgrading a future inspection. I have a child who is with me under a council contract for three days mon, wed and friday she is due to finish with me in 4 weeks and i have another child who will be coming tuesday, wednesday and thursday starting after she has left should the SS decide at last minute to continue placement then I will RA as on a wednesday between 11.30 and 1.30 I will have 4 in the EY bracket but it is covered under continuity of childcare as it would be a last minute notification that she would continue and I do have paperwork stating what date she should have finished. SS are a pain and do not consider that I will have obviously been advertising the place. I will RA so I cover myself.