Employing 13 year old to help!

TheBTeam · 25-09-2012, 12:44 PM

I had a huge load of discussions with numerous people in our County Council about getting a work permit to employ my 13 year old to help an hour a day in my business with pay, they knew nothing couldnt send a form and didnt have clue.

Finally revisited the subject today with a search on the internet, low and behold within 10 minutes had found all the right information and even the application form for my own County council to apply for the permit!

How on earth did we manage without the blooming internet! It has only taken me since last December when he turned 13 and I made the phonecall to revisit it, so whilst the internet was fast, i was slow to use it!!

**alwaysright** · 25-09-2012, 01:02 PM

why do they need a work permit for one hour a day? paperboys etc dont have to have one, i thought a work permit/licence was only required for children doing acting or modelling work?? espcially as its out of school hours and at home

TheBTeam · 25-09-2012, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by alwaysright

why do they need a work permit for one hour a day? paperboys etc dont have to have one, i thought a work permit/licence was only required for children doing acting or modelling work?? espcially as its out of school hours and at home

You get a performance license for children doing acting/modelling and these can be given to under 13s also.

However if you wish your child of 13 to work some county council byelaws state that a work permit is required, and taken from the directgov site

'Restrictions on child employment
Children may not work:
•without an employment permit issued by the education department of the local council, if this is required by local byelaws
•in any industrial setting such as a factory or industrial site
•during school hours
•before 7.00 am or after 7.00 pm
•for more than one hour before school (children can only work before school if local byelaws allow it)
•for more than four hours without taking a break of at least one hour
•in any occupations prohibited by local byelaws or other legislation, such as pubs and betting shops
•in any work that may be harmful to their health, well-being or education
•without having a two week break from any work during the school holidays in each calendar year '

and
'Employers
Employers must inform the education department of their local authority that they have employed a school-aged child. If satisfied with the arrangements, the council will issue the child with an employment permit, if this is required by local byelaws. A child is not insured without one.

Children do not need a work permit for work experience that his/her school arranges.

Local byelaws list the jobs that 13 year olds can do. No 13 year old can work in a job that doesn't appear on the list. Local byelaws may place further restrictions on the hours and conditions of work and the nature of employment. For help and advice or to apply for a work permit contact the education department of your local council or education welfare service.'

In order to be able to put the payments through my accounts i was advised this was necessary.

**Jods** · 25-09-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by alwaysright

why do they need a work permit for one hour a day? paperboys etc dont have to have one, i thought a work permit/licence was only required for children doing acting or modelling work?? espcially as its out of school hours and at home

My DD has a permit for her paper round x (which she has had for 2.8 yrs)

**rickysmiths** · 25-09-2012, 04:52 PM

In Hertfordshire they have to have a work permit for a paper round and the work has to be agreed with their school as well, they have to sign the paperwork here when applying.

**Dragonfly** · 26-09-2012, 01:43 PM

Yes, you do have to have a permit for a paper round.And I believe you are not meant to start before 7am.

Pipsqueak · 26-09-2012, 01:52 PM

Eldest has a work permit (since he was 13) for his paper-round.
There is strict criteria for children working.

No Dragonfly a child cannot start work before 7am and can only do X amount of hours and so on...

We are just delving into eldest doing his work experience with me...

**Footprints** · 26-09-2012, 02:21 PM

What about insurance my crèche and nanny agency bussiness can struggle to get insurance for Under. 18'si would imagine it even harder for -13 year old.

**hectors house** · 26-09-2012, 03:44 PM

What are you employing your 13 year old for, surely they need to be 16+ to be your assistant, even if for only one hour a day.

Or are they just going to help with washing up, cleaning and tidying toys away - I used to pay my daughter £10 a week for this and put it through accounts.

TheBTeam · 27-09-2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by hectors house

What are you employing your 13 year old for, surely they need to be 16+ to be your assistant, even if for only one hour a day.

Or are they just going to help with washing up, cleaning and tidying toys away - I used to pay my daughter £10 a week for this and put it through accounts.

Yes it is just for helping out with tidying up/cleaning etc. Not directly working with children.

**Tealady** · 27-09-2012, 08:19 PM

Forgive me if I'm wrong and this is actually completely illegal, but if they are your child and just simply washing up the days crockery, putting away the toys, can't you just up their pocket money for being helpful. It's your child doing chores in your home and not working with the children in any way. Parents the world over pay their children extra pocket money for washing the car, sweeping up leaves etc. No work permit needed for that!

TheBTeam · 27-09-2012, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Tealady

Forgive me if I'm wrong and this is actually completely illegal, but if they are your child and just simply washing up the days crockery, putting away the toys, can't you just up their pocket money for being helpful. It's your child doing chores in your home and not working with the children in any way. Parents the world over pay their children extra pocket money for washing the car, sweeping up leaves etc. No work permit needed for that!

Why would this be illegal? Yes you can up their pocket money, but it is a legitimate expense that can go through your childminding accounts.

**AliceK** · 27-09-2012, 08:30 PM

Over the summer holidays my DS wanted more pocket money (he's 8) so I told him he could do jobs for me and I would pay him wages. So he has a list of jobs to do, things like sweeping the floor after meals, clearing plates away, tidying up the playroom with the LO's etc. Can I put this through my books? Does anyone know?

xxx

TheBTeam · 27-09-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by AliceK

Over the summer holidays my DS wanted more pocket money (he's 8) so I told him he could do jobs for me and I would pay him wages. So he has a list of jobs to do, things like sweeping the floor after meals, clearing plates away, tidying up the playroom with the LO's etc. Can I put this through my books? Does anyone know?

xxx

I think this is where they need to be a minimum of thirteen to put through books.

**migimoo** · 27-09-2012, 09:17 PM

I made the mistake of showing my 13yr old DD this thread earlier

We are now in negotiations....It's like dealing with Alan Sugar here!

**Tealady** · 27-09-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tealady

Forgive me if I'm wrong and this is actually completely illegal, but if they are your child and just simply washing up the days crockery, putting away the toys, can't you just up their pocket money for being helpful. It's your child doing chores in your home and not working with the children in any way. Parents the world over pay their children extra pocket money for washing the car, sweeping up leaves etc. No work permit needed for that!

Apologies if that came across wrong. I was meaning to say that I hope I wasn't suggesting anything illegal but surely it was just pocket money for chores so therefore wouldn't need a permit. Didn't realise you would be planning to put it through your books. However with all the hassle of getting a permit then having to comply with emplyoment law, is it worth the tax saving? I suppose it depends on what your post-expense/pre-tax income before his wages are deducted.

**Ripeberry** · 28-09-2012, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by TheBTeam

I think this is where they need to be a minimum of thirteen to put through books.

Sounds like a lot of trouble. Must be getting a good rate. Now I would be quite mean and expevt my kids to do it for nothing. I used to do the family shopping and clean the house each week. Never got paid for it. But each to their own.

**hectors house** · 28-09-2012, 11:19 AM

When my daughter helped me by tidying up toys and putting the hoover round each day - I paid her £10 a week and put it through books - it was a win win situation because I didn't directly give her the money, I used it to pay for her keyboard lesson - I didn't register for a work permit but did check it out with tax office.

**rickysmiths** · 28-09-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by TheBTeam

Why would this be illegal? Yes you can up their pocket money, but it is a legitimate expense that can go through your childminding accounts.

Yes it is a claimable expense. I have been 'paying' my two children a £10pw for years. My accountant advised me to do it as they both helped me regularly in a number of ways. They don't pay tax on the income because they don't earn enough but I can claim it as an expense and it added up to over £1000 a year in expenses.

**Jods** · 28-09-2012, 11:41 AM

my eldest turns 16 in Dec and I am going to employ her an 1hr a day whilst minding, not as an assitant as such, but so I can crack on with tea etc, I will be paying her £5 for that hr 4 days a week, compared to her c****y paper round at £7 the job!!

Well I just as well as I have to get her a CRB - makes her more useful x