re variations september

[mushpea]

hi am i correct in thinking as from september we can take on sibblings with a variation?
I have 2 under 5's on a tuesday wedensday and friday who are 1yrs and 3y.5yrs and have had an enquirey for 2 sibbling s age 1yr and 2yr can I take the 2 new ones on? I know I am more than capable of looking after this amount of children and have all the equipment etc and I am sure it said we can do this for sibblings, just a bit nervous about it incase im wrong so wanted to check with you

[sarah707]

Variations are for continuation of care in exceptional circumstances - not to fit in extra new children.

As long as you can meet that criteria then you can do it

[mushpea]

ok so that would be a no then
shame cause the lady is desperate to keep them together ,,
thanks for the quick response on a bank holiday Sarah

[loocyloo]

there was a thread by penny a few days ago, where she had spoken to a high up bod in ofsted who said that in exceptional circumstance, then you could do it for siblings ... as long as you had one space, and there is NO ONE else who could do the hours/days etc required in the area. (at least, i think that was my reading of it!)

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/...d.php?t=107113

[sarah707]

there was a thread by penny a few days ago, where she had spoken to a high up bod in ofsted who said that in exceptional circumstance, then you could do it for siblings ... as long as you had one space, and there is NO ONE else who could do the hours/days etc required in the area. (at least, i think that was my reading of it!)

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/...d.php?t=107113

Yes I saw that thread loocyloo.

However, it does worry me because ... even though I know the source at Ofsted and it is a very good source ... it's not following the wording of either the EYFS or the Ofsted guidance document ... it's way off beam.

So, if a complaint is made and someone is pulled up over it, Ofsted inspectors might well not have access to that information...

Do you see what I mean?

I can only tell you what the EYFS and guidance say ... anything else is down to the individual childminder to decide if they can justify.

hth

[Bluebell]

Is there going to be any kind of advice, guidance or clarification from Ofsted if we are in a tricky situation like this? I wonder what will happen to all the people working in the variations department? They surely can't expect us to suddenly know what all the rules are when they presumabley have had guidance and training. While we can assess our capabilities, our home setting, our equipment and all the other things normally assessed by Ofsted the uniqueness of each situation would benefit from some guidance from the people in the know!

[kindredspirits]

Mushpea - presumably you could get round the logistics of it by taking on 1 sibling and then the other one afterwards... which is sort of what Penny was getting at in her post as it not being that benefical for the children BUT in the long run if it keeps them together in a setting where that wouldn't otherwise be possible, worth doing, IMO.

[blue bear]

I've known 2 childminders who have been granted variations for new business because only got one place but had enquiry for siblings. So it's definetly been a possibility pre September 2012.

[emma04]

From September 2012 variations will no longer be required.

This is what is stated in the new EYFS Statutory Framework:

3.39 At any one time, childminders may care for a maximum of six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children, and there should only be one child under the age of one. Any care provided for older children must not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years provision.

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six.

In my case, from Spetember 2012 I will be caring for four children under 3

2 of these children i've been caring for for 12 months
1 is my own baby
1 will be a new child

I am taking on the new child based on the fact that one of the currently cared for 'young children' is my own. (in your case it would be siblings that mean you need to exceed the 3 'young children' ratio)

I spoke to Ofsted and clarified eveything and they made notes on my account to prove that I had asked the question and clarified what ratio's were allowed.
In order to care for '4 young children' i've had to notify all parents, produce a risk assessment and a statement to detail how i am able to meet the needs of all of these children.

[jumpinjen]

From September 2012 variations will no longer be required.

This is what is stated in the new EYFS Statutory Framework:

3.39 At any one time, childminders may care for a maximum of six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children, and there should only be one child under the age of one. Any care provided for older children must not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years provision.

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six.

In my case, from Spetember 2012 I will be caring for four children under 3

2 of these children i've been caring for for 12 months
1 is my own baby
1 will be a new child

I am taking on the new child based on the fact that one of the currently cared for 'young children' is my own. (in your case it would be siblings that mean you need to exceed the 3 'young children' ratio)

I spoke to Ofsted and clarified eveything and they made notes on my account to prove that I had asked the question and clarified what ratio's were allowed.
In order to care for '4 young children' i've had to notify all parents, produce a risk assessment and a statement to detail how i am able to meet the needs of all of these children.

Wow - well that's a step sideways too - I had understood it as if you gave birth to a new baby then you wouldn't have to give notice to an existing mindee if you would then be over numbers. Allowing minders to take on an extra child so their own baby/young child isn't 'counted' opens up every minder with a child under five to have four children - that seems to open up a whole can of worms!

Jen x

[Mouse]

Wow - well that's a step sideways too - I had understood it as if you gave birth to a new baby then you wouldn't have to give notice to an existing mindee if you would then be over numbers. Allowing minders to take on an extra child so their own baby/young child isn't 'counted' opens up every minder with a child under five to have four children - that seems to open up a whole can of worms!

Jen x

It just doesn't make sense does it? So a minder with a young baby could take on 3 mindees, giving them 4 children, but a minder with older children could only have 3 EY children?

[mushpea]

well I rang ofsted in the end and they said no at first then I explained the parent was having trouble finding a placement for all four of them and that one of them had special needs which I have experiance with and he said as long as i can prove I am capable of having all six children (2 are school age) then it should be allowed,, so then I asked what happens if i risk asses it and do all the relevant paperwork and I am happy with it but ofsted do my inspection and say I shouldnt have taken them on then what,, he couldnt or wouldnt answer, he just kept saying talk to your local authority who inturn send me back to ofsted..
I just worry that I would take these on then ofsted will say its the wrong thing.
my other option would be to give notice to one of the other sibblings then tell mum that in a month she can come back as dad isnt in full time employment as yet so for them its doable.

[blue bear]

From September 2012 variations will no longer be required.

This is what is stated in the new EYFS Statutory Framework:

3.39 At any one time, childminders may care for a maximum of six children under the age of eight. Of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children, and there should only be one child under the age of one. Any care provided for older children must not adversely affect the care of children receiving early years provision.

3.40 If a childminder can demonstrate to parents and/or carers and inspectors, that the individual needs of all the children are being met, then exceptions to the usual ratios can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies, or when caring for their own baby. If children aged four and five only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school day, and/or during school holidays, they may be cared for at the same time as three other young children. But in all circumstances, the total number of children under the age of eight being cared for must not exceed six.

In my case, from Spetember 2012 I will be caring for four children under 3

2 of these children i've been caring for for 12 months
1 is my own baby
1 will be a new child

I am taking on the new child based on the fact that one of the currently cared for 'young children' is my own. (in your case it would be siblings that mean you need to exceed the 3 'young children' ratio)

I spoke to Ofsted and clarified eveything and they made notes on my account to prove that I had asked the question and clarified what ratio's were allowed.
In order to care for '4 young children' i've had to notify all parents, produce a risk assessment and a statement to detail how i am able to meet the needs of all of these children.

this worries me as many childminders have such varying advice on the helpline from ofsted staff who don't really understand the revised eyfs. 3.40 in the ofsted fact sheet is reffered to as allowing childminders to care for more than one baby or being able to care for more children in the early years group if the children aged four or five attend settings for a normal schhol day and/or the school holidays.
it does not state you can go to four under 5 because you have your own baby, nor does it mention new business. personally i would be emailing in and getting written confirmation.

[sarah707]

personally i would be emailing in and getting written confirmation.

Ofsted will not give you confirmation - they will refer you to the Eyfs and the guidance document and tell you it's up to you.

This is why the whole situation is so worrying for everyone.

People will make up their own minds and risk being wrong

My thread here might help -

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/...d.php?t=107471

[christine e]

After reading Penny's thread about this I had a chat with my local NCMA staff and she was rather alarmed at what Penny was saying. Her concern is that if you grant yourself a variation and something serious happens that warrants a visit from Ofsted who investigate and decide you were in the wrong to increase your numbers then you could find yourself in a situation where your PL insurance could be invalidated. I would strongly advise that people ensure that they are meeting the requirements when they increase their numbers.