Honest advice needed please....

**redtiger21** · 19-10-2014, 05:40 PM

Hi all, I'm after some advice...

I know that most local councils don't apply restrictions on CMs in terms of numbers of children, but mine unfortunately does, so as well as the usual OFSTED restrictions, my local council has "advised" that I keep to no more than 6 children under the age of 14 in y house at one time, including my own two in that total (if I wanted to go over that number then they feel that would change the "purpose" of my premises from residential to business, which would then cost me some serious money. I've asked them twice, and they've given me the same answer, so there's no changing their view on it).

So, with this in mind, I have never gone above 4 mindees at once (because I have 2 kids of my own, which takes the total to 6 under the age of 14). HOWEVER, I've had a request from a lady looking for childcare from January, which if I said yes, would mean that, once a week, for 30 minutes in the morning and 60 minutes in the afternoon, I would have 5 mindees in my house, plus my own 2 children. The rest of the time, all except the 3 infants will be at school, or walking to and from school. At no point would my numbers or age ratios go above OFSTED regulations.

So..... what should I do? Should I take the family on, and take that risk? I'm completely unsure what the repercussions would be if the council actually found out that I wasn't following their "advice", nor am I sure how they ever actually could find out- but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with it?! What would you guys do???

Thanks.

**Kiddleywinks** · 19-10-2014, 05:48 PM

I wouldn't do it, as frustrating as it must be for you, for me it just isn't worth the risk. There are some nasty people out there, just waiting for that moment when you give them a good enough reason to find fault and report - if they go to ofsted, obviously it'll be dismissed as you are within your ratio, but if the caller is advised to contact the council as it's out of ofsted's remit, then I guarantee they'll call and report you.

If you've been advised it's a no go, and you go ahead anyway, I doubt the council would be 'sympathetic' as opposed to someone that 'hadn't realised'

(I would however be pretty peed off about it)

Edited to add:
How old are your LO's - could they visit grandparents on the afternoon of the day you need...?

**FloraDora** · 19-10-2014, 06:08 PM

I too would not risk it - it could cost you your business. You may be on a watch system too since you have twice asked to go over i.e. Not apply their rules. I think you need to be very careful.

**redtiger21** · 19-10-2014, 07:00 PM

Argh it's so frustrating!! You're right, I suppose I needed to hear it though!

**carol cameron** · 20-10-2014, 07:07 AM

Sorry if I have read your post wrong but wouldn't that give you 7 children ? Ofsted won't ever allow more than 6 children under any circumstances so you couldn't do it anyway ? Unless one or more children is over 8 of course- that thought has just struck me !
Still not worth the risk of having the planning department on your back I wouldn't have thought.Seems unfair though

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 20-10-2014, 07:32 AM

If I was inside my Ofsted regulations I would do it.

I would put money on it that others childminders keep their head down and don't tell the council how many children they have

**Mouse** · 20-10-2014, 08:11 AM

Which department at the council advises you not to go above 6 children in total? The planning department, or the early years department? I would want firm reasons from the actual department that has the final say in the matter, not just the advise from someone who can't really be bothered to look into it and see whether or not there is any legal reason why you can't go above 6 children, or whether they'd just prefer it if you didn't. If it's just that they'd prefer you not to go over 6 I'd want to know if there are any childminders who have applied for change of use, how it worked, what the outcome was etc etc.

I would contact my insurance company for legal advice. They may tell you that you have no choice in the matter, or they may tell you that as it is only 'advice' you have been given, it isn't legally enforceable and you may be OK to go above that number.

Simona · 20-10-2014, 09:14 AM

I would ring the DfE...unless I am wrong Truss made a big fuss about reducing 'LAs restrictions' when it comes to planning...and I think it was under the 'Regulation of childcare' when she reduced the red tape around this subject?

As suggested by others I would ring Planning Dept, EY team and your insurance...the chance they will all give you contradictory advice ......but with that info put it to the DfE as they are the policy makers...so to speak!

also make sure you tell the DfE your LA is suggesting you become a registered business from your home...defeats the object of More Affordable Childcare I think!

let us know and good luck

**JCrakers** · 20-10-2014, 09:22 AM

If I could only have 4 minded children (I have two of my own also) I don't think I would be childminding as the money I would be bringing in just wouldn't be worth it for me.

Somedays I have 9 mindees plus my 12yr old and my 15yr old. Its funny that your council would say 6 children under 14yrs.

**loocyloo** · 20-10-2014, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

I would ring the DfE...unless I am wrong Truss made a big fuss about reducing 'LAs restrictions' when it comes to planning...and I think it was under the 'Regulation of childcare' when she reduced the red tape around this subject?

As suggested by others I would ring Planning Dept, EY team and your insurance...the chance they will all give you contradictory advice ......but with that info put it to the DfE as they are the policy makers...so to speak!

also make sure you tell the DfE your LA is suggesting you become a registered business from your home...defeats the object of More Affordable Childcare I think!

let us know and good luck

off topic, but similar,

a childminder who comes under my district council has had ( big ) problems with a neighbour ... the upshot is that the planning department of district council have limited her to 4 minded children at any one time. she has been told it will cost ££££ to appeal and £££ to apply for planning, which they would be unlikely to grant. this is despite our LA saying we don't need planning permission, and it has never having been mentioned before. BUT, they are saying they can't make a decision, it is down to the district council

( suspicion is that neighbour has connections with local planning dept ... a bit 'old boys' network - but can't be proved ) Ofsted/DfE have all said it is down to district council.

Simona · 20-10-2014, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by loocyloo

off topic, but similar,

a childminder who comes under my district council has had ( big ) problems with a neighbour ... the upshot is that the planning department of district council have limited her to 4 minded children at any one time. she has been told it will cost ££££ to appeal and £££ to apply for planning, which they would be unlikely to grant. this is despite our LA saying we don't need planning permission, and it has never having been mentioned before. BUT, they are saying they can't make a decision, it is down to the district council

( suspicion is that neighbour has connections with local planning dept ... a bit 'old boys' network - but can't be proved ) Ofsted/DfE have all said it is down to district council.

Yes ....very much what I was trying to say
DfE says one thing...as in planning and funding as well ...and LAs actually do their own thing

How this is helpful I do not know but DfE cannot tell us they have reduced the 'LAs role' when...in my view...their conditions are now worse than before for some providers

Too many chefs in this case make a real job of it all.
Many nurseries have had 'restrictions' because of consideration to their neighbours...such as limiting time outside etc etc but.... it is different from actually restricting the numbers we are legally entitled to look after and under regulation

We will never win unless LAs have a common denominator in practice...can't see that happening !

**redtiger21** · 20-10-2014, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by carol cameron

Sorry if I have read your post wrong but wouldn't that give you 7 children ? Ofsted won't ever allow more than 6 children under any circumstances so you couldn't do it anyway ? Unless one or more children is over 8 of course- that thought has just struck me !
Still not worth the risk of having the planning department on your back I wouldn't have thought.Seems unfair though

No, ym own children are 9 and 14 so don't count in OFSTED ratios