Need to up my fees but feel embarrassed

I charge way below other cms in my area but feel too awkward asking for more. One of my mindees also attends nursery (I don't work Fridays) and they pay £24 a day more than my rate!

I have a mindee due to leave in September and have a couple of families contacting me regarding the space. The perfect opportunity to up my prices but I can't bring myself to give a higher amount in case they laugh in my face.

I was graded Outstanding in the past 12 months, have to always turn people away and charge about £42 a day. I'm in Berkshire.

What should I do?
Put everyone's fees up a bit?
Charge more to new families?
Keep it the same since I do ok for myself?

Yuk. I hate money side of things.

I know how you feel. It's hard to be 100% business like when you become friends with a lot of the families but I daresay some cms manage it lol. It is a good opportunity to charge the new families at a higher rate than your current ones ( families and rates) so I would grab it with both hands. All my families are on different rates as this is what I have done in the past but I also have increased their fees now and again if I feel they are slipping way down the current rate. I'm sure you provide an excellent service so let your fees reflect this. Do you mean nurseries are charging over £60 per day? that's ridiculous!

Yes, crazy I know, they pay £66 to the nursery and recently also had to pay the bank holiday whereas i don't charge for BH or my holidays but full fees for their hols.

Childminders are in the £50-£65 per day region. I've hardly changed my prices since starting 7 years ago.

Wow I feel bad for the couple of parents of children I have who are here for 11 hours per day meaning their daily fee is £48! Rest are below that but I just couldn't charge any more for them.

My mindees are all on different rates. If you can, charge more for the new contracts. My Lo's contracts do end when they start school then I know I can charge more for wrap around care. But, at the moment, once a lo starts I don't tend to raise the fee till they want wrap around care.

I have put my prices up for new families starting in September as I will have lots of spaces with children moving on to school. I haven't put my prices up for a while , lots of new childminders have started up in last few years and they are all charge a lot more than me.

I too am in Berkshire and my fees are also low for existing families, as little as £3.95 ph. When I take on a new family I do tend to charge a little more to them. My highest rate at present is £4.25 ph. I definitely think you could and should charge a higher rate for new families and perhaps think about a small increase for existing families although I know this is hard. I am giving up at the end of this month and my current families have been seeing other childminders and apparently most are charging £5.00 ph and don't provide an "all inclusive" service like I have been doing.

Go for it :thumbsup:

xx

Thanks everyone.

I think I will advertise a new rate and see if I get any takers. I guess if no one is willing to pay it I can always drop it again. I'm always full and it's getting a bit much to be honest. Lots of bodies here after school (8/9 including my own) and it would be lovely to drop a few through natural progression, I don't mean give notice, and still be able to afford to do so. I think I could also make it an all inclusive price to ensure value for money still. I already do meals but nappies seem cheap enough at less than £1 a day to provide.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minstrel

I charge way below other cms in my area but feel too awkward asking for more. One of my mindees also attends nursery (I don't work Fridays) and they pay £24 a day more than my rate!

I have a mindee due to leave in September and have a couple of families contacting me regarding the space. The perfect opportunity to up my prices but I can't bring myself to give a higher amount in case they laugh in my face.

I was graded Outstanding in the past 12 months, have to always turn people away and charge about £42 a day. I'm in Berkshire.

What should I do?
Put everyone's fees up a bit?
Charge more to new families?
Keep it the same since I do ok for myself?

Yuk. I hate money side of things.

---

Update your contract and state clearly that you will review fees ' once a year'...do not be afraid as nurseries are already threatening higher fees due to recent govt policies....it is not competition it is survival
Never be afraid to charge for high quality education and childcare...Cms are in this to survive not undercharge :thumbsup:

Good luck!

Hmm I write my own contracts and actually they do say that every July I will review fees and any changes will come in to effect on 1st September.

I just need to grow some balls and actually follow through with it!

I wholeheartedly include my own failings in the following criticism. I can only claim mitigating circumstances inasmuch as I am quite definitely the 'second earner' at Bunyip Towers and we would still just about survive if we had only Mrs B's wages to live on.

I find it at the same time tragic and laughable that we collectively bang on about 'professional status' and 'being taken seriously' whilst simultaneously being embarrassed about demanding a fair income commensurate with our hours, responsibility, experience, training, qualifications, etc.

No need for me to rehearse the arguments and comparisons of how little we all earn: that much is all too well-known to all of us.

But why do we always feel the need to be apologetic about making a living? :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunyip

I wholeheartedly include my own failings in the following criticism. I can only claim mitigating circumstances inasmuch as I am quite definitely the 'second earner' at Bunyip Towers and we would still just about survive if we had only Mrs B's wages to live on.

I find it at the same time tragic and laughable that we collectively bang on about 'professional status' and 'being taken seriously' whilst simultaneously being embarrassed about demanding a fair income commensurate with our hours, responsibility, experience, training, qualifications, etc.

No need for me to rehearse the arguments and comparisons of how little we all earn: that much is all too well-known to all of us.

But why do we always feel the need to be apologetic about making a living? :(

---

It maybe because Cms are always seen as the 'cheaper' option? Even the govt flags that up...not sure why

Having said that a small increase each year is totally acceptable and Cms do offer a much more rounded education and childcare opportunities based on real experiences, out an about in the community and not 'restricted' within 4 walls and no outdoor access...that is enough to feel confident about

I also don't think parents are aware what it takes to run a setting from a home ...the truth will out one day :)

I put my fees up from £4.00 to £4.20 in January 2015 after I got my Outstanding Grade and also stopped giving 4 weeks holiday at half fee as it got difficult to keep on top of who had used what when they sometimes just took an odd day - but this only applied to new customers. The last 2 children on £4 are off to school Sept so at least then everyone will be paying the same rate.

One of my children needed to increase days which took me to 4 on a Wednesday, mum tried to get the older sibling into nursery on an extra day but they couldn't do it, so I found another childminder who could fit her in (I obviously couldn't have 5), I just found out that this other childminder charges £4.50 an hour but only charges half fee for the child's holidays, so I guess it's all swings and roundabouts.

I think you should definitely start advertising yourself at the higher rate for new customers - don't sell yourself short, you are Outstanding :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunyip

I wholeheartedly include my own failings in the following criticism. I can only claim mitigating circumstances inasmuch as I am quite definitely the 'second earner' at Bunyip Towers and we would still just about survive if we had only Mrs B's wages to live on.

I find it at the same time tragic and laughable that we collectively bang on about 'professional status' and 'being taken seriously' whilst simultaneously being embarrassed about demanding a fair income commensurate with our hours, responsibility, experience, training, qualifications, etc.

No need for me to rehearse the arguments and comparisons of how little we all earn: that much is all too well-known to all of us.

But why do we always feel the need to be apologetic about making a living? :(

---

I think for me I consider the affordability for the parents and with comparisons to other childminders feel charging the price I really want to is unreasonable! It is true though - we should be seen as professional earners :) I wanted to start charging £40 a day when I start back up again but decided it was too steep and so will charge £37 a day - only £4 an hour if they use the full hours but obviously steeper if the choose to use less. The one and only local nursery charges something like £36.50 for a day. Local childminders are also comparable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluebell

I think for me I consider the affordability for the parents and with comparisons to other childminders feel charging the price I really want to is unreasonable! It is true though - we should be seen as professional earners :) I wanted to start charging £40 a day when I start back up again but decided it was too steep and so will charge £37 a day - only £4 an hour if they use the full hours but obviously steeper if the choose to use less. The one and only local nursery charges something like £36.50 for a day. Local childminders are also comparable.

---

Cms should be seen as earning to make a profit...that is what the govt and DWP now expect of cms....so they have busted their own myth of cms being low paid
If a cm claims Working Tax credits that is now not allowed unless Cms show they are running a small business to keep it sustainable and make a profit.

If you think about the parents then you must also consider the 'huge' amount of help 'hard working families' :rolleyes: get from the govt...are you NOT a hard working family? there is no need for you to help parents further!

Make your fees work for you...work out how you could get the NLW yourself and work out what the fees should be.

Unfortunately the govt keeps telling us we are a 'childcare market'...so we must apply the rules that make a market survive...Gyimah repeats this but I fear he has no idea how a market operates......do not compare yourself to others...try to do better.

If you need to raise your fees explain to the parents the many reasons you need to do so...one being you need to earn the new NLW by order of the DWP itself :thumbsup:

Good luck!

I also have in contracts that I will review fees in July to increase in sept. Been minding almost 6 years and have only increased once since then by 20p an hour. I am increasing again this year another 30p an hour (3 years after first increase). I have already sent out a letter to tell current families what my new rate is and that as current families they will remain on the old discounted rate until sept when it will then increase.

I worded it like that and gave them plenty of notice to make it sound like they were getting a good deal.

I don't do daily rates.

When I did my pre-reg training I was really disappointed with the paucity of business training given. IIRC we spent one morning on it, but it was little more than being talked through the workings of a pacey account book and some HMRC information taken from the tinternet. IOW all stuff we could do for ourselves if pointed in the right direction.

As newbies, the most popular question was "what should we charge?" I was expecting the trainer to demonstrate how to construct a proper business plan, taking account of fixed and variable costs, and the level of profit required to make it worth working (ie. how much we'd have to live on.)

But we got none of that. Instead, we were told to charge the same or similar to other local CMs: something I've been hearing from all quarters ever since (including this forum and my local CM mafia group who will ostracise any member whose fees don't fit their template. :mad:) The trainer even explained why we should charge the same. ie. Charge more and you'll get no clients (why not, if you can justify it on quality of service or if demand exceeds supply?). Charge less and you'll be "unfairly undercutting" existing CMs (oh, well you wouldn't want to admit CMs were actually competing in the cuddly world of childcare, eh?)

I've always thought this tends toward depressing the average fees which we can all charge. The CM locally who can set the lowest fee, or avoid increases over time, tends too set the mark and attract the clients. They can probably afford to be the cheapest because they are spending less on their business, keeping down their input costs on food, outings, resources, training, etc. They may well be gambling with their ratios or at least maxing out their capacity (so less 1to1 care). In fact I even know of a couple of CMs who 'moonlight' by doing ironing or dog-walking whilst CMing. :( In short, this all tends towards making fees regress towards the lower end of the spectrum. This is exacerbated by the incessant drone of parents, politicians and media (especially on 'quiet news days') about "the high cost of childcare" - despite the fact there is more help for working parents than ever before.

I can't think of many other businesses (and certainly not one "profession") which people go into, determined to charge the same as everyone else (as well as being encouraged to use carbon-copy policies, practices, procedures, etc.) without any consideration of the costs and returns.

I think there are a couple of reasons for this. We still tend to think of a 'childcare business' first and foremost in terms of 'children' and 'care'. That's as it should be, but we make the mistake of almost completely excluding the 'business' part. The 'business' almost a dirty word to the extent where some CMs almost seem to think the subject will go away if they ignore it. This naturally rubs off on parents who forget little business matters like,ooh, say, paying their CM......:(

The other reason is that, for the most part, CMs tend not to become CMs as a first career choice. It tends to be something most of stumble into due to the need to work from home, often with our own children initially, or because going out to work doesn't fit with our own childcare or family needs. This tends towards creating providers who are excellent with children, but maybe far less business-minded.

Very interesting points raised below by various people regarding training for cms.

It is only recently that cms have been made aware of getting trained to run a small business....the wise Truss thought so thinking she had reinvented the wheel...unfortunately she knew little about running a business herself....incredible looking at the expenses she claims for being a Minister :rolleyes:
Being shown how to fill in an account book and being referred to HMRC are 2 different things....personally I think we need both skills.

The stationery is to do with accountancy while the HMRC does the tax collection...LAs are really not suitable to carry out this sort of business training.

What should CMs charge when they first start?
That is something that needs planning alongside the Ofsted registration...which is long and winded enough and many cms spent hours pouring over

How we get to the right fee?....do a very simple business plan...now made easier by the fact CMs will not be able to get Tax Credits anymore and the new NLW gives us a pointer....it is very easy to arrive at a fee when we take account of all matters.

Never charge the same...not sure how LAs have the courage to suggest that to CMs?...do they all give us the same funding? :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no reason that a CM cannot be both a very good carer and a wise financial manager...fit as many hats on your head as you can

We need proper Cms business training...some sessions are already in place by a very good qualified provider.... but stay tuned because more is coming!

The final message is 'review fees regularly'...look at your expenses and ponder over the small increases you have to meet each year...the only stagnant cost is Cms' registration fee at the moment...that will change very soon I think!

Good points, well made, Simona.

I was reading through and had to chuckle (somewhat wryly) at:-

Quote:

---

Never charge the same...not sure how LAs have the courage to suggest that to CMs?...do they all give us the same funding?

---

How true. My LA now pay funding which matches my fee, but only because my own fee has stagnated (that's me not following my own advice.........again :().

On top of that, the LA funding should (but doesn't) pay us extra, over and above our usual rates for all the admin time and sundry inconveniences of taking on funded children. Curious that LAs retain some of the money they draw down from the Treasury on the grounds of "admin costs" yet don't consider our admin costs. Hmmmm....... :mad:

I'm just about to register my first funded 3yo this year, and found to my chagrin that the LA has ditched its old paper system, which just about worked, and we're now all compelled to use their new online system for funding claims. I've spoken with other CM/nursery friends who all describe the online system as "an absolute nightmare" (one inserted an F-word between "absolute" and "nightmare"). Even the LA staff I spoke to admit that several CMs have dropped out of offering funded care because they don't use computers and see no need to start. If you're a bit above the 'IT generation' why would you want to spend a month's profits on a pc, let alone have to learn how to use it, just to get underpaid for providing "free" care?

Curiously, the LA's system is run through our old friends Capita: who make huge profits out of providing lousy services privately to the public sector. It did cross my mind that, if Capita run the individual LA's system, why on doG's Earth don't they do it for the whole of England and thereby avoid all those myriad little LA rules and systems. Just the sort of consistency Simona has brought up before, and taking us back to her original point as it happens.....

Sorry, bit of a rant there. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bunyip

Good points, well made, Simona.

I was reading through and had to chuckle (somewhat wryly) at:-

How true. My LA now pay funding which matches my fee, but only because my own fee has stagnated (that's me not following my own advice.........again :().

On top of that, the LA funding should (but doesn't) pay us extra, over and above our usual rates for all the admin time and sundry inconveniences of taking on funded children. Curious that LAs retain some of the money they draw down from the Treasury on the grounds of "admin costs" yet don't consider our admin costs. Hmmmm....... :mad:

I'm just about to register my first funded 3yo this year, and found to my chagrin that the LA has ditched its old paper system, which just about worked, and we're now all compelled to use their new online system for funding claims. I've spoken with other CM/nursery friends who all describe the online system as "an absolute nightmare" (one inserted an F-word between "absolute" and "nightmare"). Even the LA staff I spoke to admit that several CMs have dropped out of offering funded care because they don't use computers and see no need to start. If you're a bit above the 'IT generation' why would you want to spend a month's profits on a pc, let alone have to learn how to use it, just to get underpaid for providing "free" care?

Curiously, the LA's system is run through our old friends Capita: who make huge profits out of providing lousy services privately to the public sector. It did cross my mind that, if Capita run the individual LA's system, why on doG's Earth don't they do it for the whole of England and thereby avoid all those myriad little LA rules and systems. Just the sort of consistency Simona has brought up before, and taking us back to her original point as it happens.....

Sorry, bit of a rant there. :p

---

You will have the chance to raise this in the forthcoming consultation Bunyip as Gyimah is keen to have a system that is not too bureaucratic :rolleyes:...having supervised/endorsed it in the first place...what a farce.

I have read somewhere about the suggestion of having the 'same paperwork' across LAs...can't remember where but it is in the last speech he made I think...will look for it.
I think it is a question we are asked in this consultation

LAs 'cream off' from central funding because they are allowed to with the full DfE knowledge and there is no promise this practice will end in future with the 30 hours as LAs will be the 'middleman' again.

Should we look at Sweden where providers are directly funded by the govt?...no delays and the whole funding gets to them...food for thought maybe and also why neither Truss nor Gyimah ever went to Sweden to look at how their system works ...we know why their interest was in France...don't we?

Look closely at the new Draft guidance for LAs...DfE will fund up to 3 providers for 30 hours...can we assume this is a nightmare in the making?