Safer Food Better Business FOR CHILDMINDERS

[sunnysmile]

I assume this doesn't cover Scotland?

[sarah707]

I assume this doesn't cover Scotland?

Yes the pack does! It says so

[babs]

i went on food hygiene course few weeks ago and we were all given a free food probe and fridge or freezer thermometer and a booklet to record food and fridge/freezer temps in.... needless to say ive been busy playin with mine

[sarah707]

i went on food hygiene course few weeks ago and we were all given a free food probe and fridge or freezer thermometer and a booklet to record food and fridge/freezer temps in.... needless to say ive been busy playin with mine

This is why I asked the questions!

It's sooo important that we check our fridges!!

I'm worried that if we are told just to note when there's a problem, people won't bother as they're too busy doing other things, it will get forgotten and next thing we know there will be somebody being sued

[clorogue]

I had a letter through this week and it requested we order ours should we wish to use it!

[Rubybubbles]

I have just kicked out my Development Worker, she is sending me the new one

[nikkia77]

I've just recieved mine & after a 'heated exchange' lol with dp thought i'd post on here the questions he asked me that I couldn't answer

if you have to check fridge/freezer temps for safety like a resturant why then don't we have to do the following like a resturant

have the different coloured chopping boards

have food hygiene cert as compulsory

have uniform & prep area

He's saying that he thinks it should be all or nothing & while we both agree that temps should be recorded he thinks that it seems a bit silly only getting us to do that (if you hadn't guessed he worked in resturant's for years)

[Daisy1956]

Ordered mine yesterday I'll probably end up with two copies now. Thank goodness for the forum it's the best place to get info my council didn't even know childminders had ro register with environmental health

[sarah707]

I've just recieved mine & after a 'heated exchange' lol with dp thought i'd post on here the questions he asked me that I couldn't answer

if you have to check fridge/freezer temps for safety like a resturant why then don't we have to do the following like a resturant

have the different coloured chopping boards

have food hygiene cert as compulsory

have uniform & prep area

He's saying that he thinks it should be all or nothing & while we both agree that temps should be recorded he thinks that it seems a bit silly only getting us to do that (if you hadn't guessed he worked in resturant's for years)

I totally agree with him!

My partner is a chef and thinks it's very silly to dumb it down so much as well.

Either we do it properly or we run the risk of being sued, it's not hard to work out which is best is it?

[Mcgons]

Just some initial thoughts... I've not read it all properly yet, only skimmed

Hi, I have just received my pack for childminders - thank you very much.

I am a little concerned and wish to clarify some of the points raised please.

- There does not appear to be any requirement to temperature probe cooked and re-heated food. My partner is a chef in a school and is adamant that this must be done to keep the children safe;

- There does not appear to be any requirement to monitor fridge temperatures, yet I am under the impression Ofsted inspectors regularly ask childminders to show them their fridge temp record sheets. Is this something you are adding to the packs in the future or have Ofsted agreed it is no longer a requirement?

- I cannot find a note of how long the record sheets / diary need to be retained;

- The pack says that childminders who serve up packed lunches do not need to use the pack. Can you please clarify how childminders are covered legally if a child falls ill and the parents say it must have been the childminder not storing food properly because they did everything right? This question links back to the apparent lack of requirement to check fridge temperatures on a daily basis, which I feel is a very dangerous thing when considering domestic fridges.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Best regards, etc

Have you heard back from them yet Sarah? Just been reading through mine to see about fridge temp logs, and it says the temp needs to be checked daily but only written down if something goes wrong. If FSA say this, how can Ofsted override it?

[tinynippers]

i feel cheeky asking but if anyone ends up with a spare copy if i pay postage costs would someone be kind enough to post me a copy please. being out in cyprus there not as strict on this sort of thing so dont have to cover any of it. but i would like to make sure i have everything in place for when we have to move back to uk. pretty please xxx

[sarah707]

i feel cheeky asking but if anyone ends up with a spare copy if i pay postage costs would someone be kind enough to post me a copy please. being out in cyprus there not as strict on this sort of thing so dont have to cover any of it. but i would like to make sure i have everything in place for when we have to move back to uk. pretty please xxx

Do you know anyone in the UK who could order you a copy and send it out?

I think they will only send one per childminder but I'm sure there are minders who have received packs from local sources who then wouldn't mind ordering one for you.

Hth

[sarah707]

Have you heard back from them yet Sarah? Just been reading through mine to see about fridge temp logs, and it says the temp needs to be checked daily but only written down if something goes wrong. If FSA say this, how can Ofsted override it?

No, I haven't heard back from them! Good point I'd forgotten all about it, thanks for the reminder.

I have some time later, I will re-write

[amandajane08]

i feel cheeky asking but if anyone ends up with a spare copy if i pay postage costs would someone be kind enough to post me a copy please. being out in cyprus there not as strict on this sort of thing so dont have to cover any of it. but i would like to make sure i have everything in place for when we have to move back to uk. pretty please xxx

If my memory serves me right, which is debatable these days lol you can download the pack from the food standards agency website. just put childminder in the search engine

Amanda xxx

[debbiedaycare]

I too am concerned that the new publication does not ask us to record enough information. I had my Environmental Health Inspection and was told to probe and record temperatures of all hot food, monitor & record daily the fridge and freezer temperature, record sell by's use by's on food served. The same information was given on my Food Hygiene course.
We were told on the course that we only have to keep the information for 7 days and could even use a wipe-clean laminated sheet to do it on.
Whilst I often feel Food Hygiene is yet another hoop to jump through I do realise the dangers to children from Food Poisoning can be serious or even fatal.
Debbie

[sarah707]

Well... here's the reply.

I'm not sure I am any the wiser She seems to be simply quoting the pack rather than answering the questions.

Where have I seen that before??

Make of it what you will

Ref 09/796

Dear Sarah

Thank you for your email of 15th October which has been passed to me for a reply.

With regard to your first point, there is no temperature specified in the legislation for cooking food, for serving food or re heating food. In Scotland, re heated food has to be cooked to at least 82 degrees Centigrade. However in England and Wales, the legislation does not specify that food has to be heated to a particular temperature. Food should be thoroughly re heated and it should be “steaming” hot. There is no legal requirement to use a temperature probe to check the food - but it is up to the food business operator (i.e. manager or person in charge) to make decisions on good practice and compliance with the legislation in order to ensure that food is kept safe. He or she can also use some other method for checking the temperature if it is more suitable.

With regard to your point about a requirement to monitor fridge temperatures, the SFBB pack states that “you should check the temperature of your fridge every day. You only need to write it down if something goes wrong.” Thus temperatures should be checked, but if they are correct, there is no need to write it down. It need only be recorded if the temperature is above or below what it should be.

The period of time for which records will need to be kept will vary from food business to food business, dependent on their activities and, as such, the relevant legislation does not stipulate how long records must be retained. The food hygiene legislation is Regulation (EC) 852/2004 on the hygiene of foodstuffs (to which I attach a link))

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pd...regulation.pdf

Article 5.4(c) of Regulation 852/2004 states that "a food business operator should retain any other documents and records for an appropriate period". However, the Regulations do not specify a time period for retaining documents and records; so "appropriate period" could therefore be open to interpretation. In the FSA Guidance Notes on Regulation (EC) 178/2002, we say that it is for food businesses to decide how long they should keep records, and that businesses should bear in mind the nature of the food, its product life, and the circumstances under which they might be required to produce records, should they receive a notification under Article 19, or a request for assistance to enforcement authorities.

It might be advisable to discuss with your local authority Environmental Health Department (EHD) as to how long you should keep records.

With regard to your query about child minders who serve packed lunches using the pack, you should also discuss this issue with your EHD. The pack is a tool for ensuring that food is safe and for helping businesses to comply with regulations and good practice but there are other methods of complying with the legislation. Even if a child minder does not supply food, there would still be a duty of care to store the packed food at a safe temperature and ensure that it is safe. In situations where illness results, it would ultimately be for the courts to decide whether an offence has been committed.

I hope that this is helpful for you.

Yours sincerely

Geraldine Newcomen
Business Support, Hygiene and Training Policy Branch
Food Standards Agency

The advice contained in this e-mail should not be taken as an authoritative statement of the law or its interpretation. The opinion of your Home Authority or other enforcement authorities may differ. Only the courts can decide whether in particular circumstances an offence has been committed.

[angeldelight]

i feel cheeky asking but if anyone ends up with a spare copy if i pay postage costs would someone be kind enough to post me a copy please. being out in cyprus there not as strict on this sort of thing so dont have to cover any of it. but i would like to make sure i have everything in place for when we have to move back to uk. pretty please xxx

You should be able to find something here

http://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/e.../childminders/


Angel xxx

[little miss chatterbox]

I don't have a food probe so wondered what i should look out for when buying one? I have found loads on ebay but some seem a bit cheap! is cheap ok??

[tinynippers]

You should be able to find something here

http://www.food.gov.uk/enforcement/e.../childminders/


Angel xxx

thankyou for that, its printing now, thankyou to everyone else as well. xxx