Parental Responsibility and Legal Contact

**Pauline** · 06-03-2009, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by sarah707

There has never been a reason given for why we suddenly have to start asking the questions and 2 of my parents complained that it was intrusive into their private family life and unnecessary but I am sure there is a reason somewhere.

Perhaps it has something to do with strangers or unsolicited people knocking on our doors...? also to confirm who can give you authority to do things and who can't... but then in an emergency the docs etc act in the best interests of the child anyway...??

I think it is to do with whether you could refuse to hand over a child if a parent told you NOT to.

Say for instance parents orignally signed up for care together and then they split up and one says "oh don't let him/her go with xxx". You wouldn't be able to refuse them access if they have legal contact.

Obviously this would cause great problems and you would hope that the person involved would see things from your point of view on how difficult it is and work with you to sort things out, but if not you would need to seek advice as to what to do.

**Helen79** · 06-03-2009, 04:45 PM

I've just realised I've totally misunderstood this, I thought legal contact meant who legally is allowed contact with the child, but it means who do I contact about the child

No it's not what ofsted told me, I just thought that I'd misunderstood it all. sorry I think I'm making this even more confusing.
If it's to find out who is allowed contact with the child then wouldn't it be easier to ask who isn't allowed contact rather than who is?

**jellytot** · 06-03-2009, 04:46 PM

oh oh oh my head hurts now

ok doin really bad with my paperwork at the moment.

first thing to be sorted are these forms can someone tell me what i am getting the parents to sign , i know its LC and PR but what are these forms for?

**Minstrel** · 06-03-2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Helen79

No it's not what ofsted told me, I just thought that I'd misunderstood it all. sorry I think I'm making this even more confusing.
If it's to find out who is allowed contact with the child then wouldn't it be easier to ask who isn't allowed contact rather than who is?

Both parents would have legal contact unless it had been taken away from them by a court etc. If a mum told me for instance that dad did not have legal contact than i would ask to see the court papers or something as proof.

i would hope that parents wouldnt put us in the middle of a dispute.

**Ripeberry** · 06-03-2009, 05:05 PM

Another thing i've noticed on the "information you must collect" is says something about Childminding insurance.
What does this mean exactly? Do you have to state that NCMA do your public liability ins and who is your car insurance and home contents providers?
Help!

Lady Haha · 06-03-2009, 08:44 PM

Right! I have got two of these done now! Felt awful asking one mum about her ex and if he had jointly registered the birth, I felt really intrusive. Luckily she was fine about it and I think most of my parents will be.

My question now is, do these forms need to be signed by the mum/dad? Just that the form I have that I downloaded from the Bromley site has nowhere for a signature. So, I have got two filled in, but without signatures?

**Minstrel** · 06-03-2009, 08:46 PM

i would get them signed for def- to prove who gave you the information. you dont want them denying they've even seen it!

**FizzysFriends** · 06-03-2009, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Minstrel

Both parents would have legal contact unless it had been taken away from them by a court etc. If a mum told me for instance that dad did not have legal contact than i would ask to see the court papers or something as proof.

i would hope that parents wouldnt put us in the middle of a dispute.

My ex doesn't have legal contact but I have nothing in writing to show people, he doesn't have it, it wasn't taken away in court its that court never gave it him, its not his automatic right he had to get permission from me or the court and neither of us gave it him.

**Minstrel** · 06-03-2009, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by FizzysFriends

My ex doesn't have legal contact but I have nothing in writing to show people, he doesn't have it, it wasn't taken away in court its that court never gave it him, its not his automatic right he had to get permission from me or the court and neither of us gave it him.

i didnt realise this. i guess this whole thing is so complicated with every case being so very different.

i assumed that both birth parents had legal contact until its taken away by courts etc.

**FizzysFriends** · 06-03-2009, 09:01 PM

I think that people are making it too complicated, if parents aren't together they will know the answers to the questions. If they don't know what PR and LC are then chances are they have never needed to know because its not relavant and therefore a few appropriate questions will confirm this (if they are married they have both).

Lady Haha · 06-03-2009, 09:21 PM

ARRRRGHHHHHH!!!! My head is going to explode soon!!!

I assumed that if the parents had parental responsibility they were not required to have legal contact! I got my parents to tick the PR yes box and the LC no box!

Surely no one has legal contact unless they apply for it through the court and they would only do this if they didn't have parental responsibility already?

And another thing that is really niggling me is, if this is oh so important then why havent I been asked to sign somethign like it for my son at school????

**Mollymop** · 06-03-2009, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=blackandsparkly;356897]This bit I DO understand so can help you here! The parent/s who the child lives with and who make all the decisions is the the ones with parental responsibility. I'm spot on with the parental responsibility thing, it's the legal contact thats confusing!

Just looked at the link above and it says that even if the father is living with the mother, if they weren't married or registered the birth together, he does not have parental responsibility and if he hasn't applied for legal contact, he doesn't have that either! So, it makes no difference really if the father is an absent parent or not!

As far as I can tell, Legal contact is a court order that some one will have applied for and any mums you work with will know if some one has done this and therefore has legal contact with their child. Some of our parents might be shocked to find that dad doesnt have parental responsibility if he wasnt or isn't married to mum or didn't jointly register the birth! He will need to apply for Legal Contact even though he has been living with them for years before QUOTE]

I am sorry to disagree here, but I DO know that parental responsibility is for a parent that could be separated from the mother, as long as they were either married or living with (after 2003) and are the birth father of the child then they have the parental repsonsibility.

I know this because my partner of 14 years and father to my 2 children has not got any parental responsibility to my first born child because he was born in 1999 (before 2003) and we are not married. BUT he has the parental responsibility our daughter who was born in 2004 (because it was after 2003)

Poor hubby (partner) he seemed so dispondant when I told him our son was my P.R and not his!

Lady Haha · 06-03-2009, 09:41 PM

Thats it! I'm scraping my brains off the ceiling now!

**Mollymop** · 06-03-2009, 09:43 PM

Anyway, one of my parents wasn't sure what to put on the form I gave her. (sh eis seperated form mindees "legal" dad, so i told her to put her and her dad's name as P/R but to put just hers as legal contact and explained that because they ahd spilt and she has sole care of mindee (her DD) that she is the legal contact.

She still ummm'ed and arrr'ed it

So I asked if she was worried about it and she said that she was just incase the DAD could come along and say things about this and that, so .................................

I tld her to write a statement on the form to say that she doesn't wish to disclose this information and that she is the only parent that her LO should go home to (but put in better terms)

She said she would look at the forms and decide whether to fill it in or write a statement saying she is not disclosing

And as far as I care if the parent does not wish to discuss this confidential matter then it is up to them, as long as I know who the emeergency contacts are, I will not let the child out of my setting with anyone else.

I thought it was gonna be quite easy, this P/r stuff, but only on of my parents has sent back their forms, when usually they would defo send them back the next day.

**Mollymop** · 06-03-2009, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by blackandsparkly

Thats it! I'm scraping my brains off the ceiling now!

Oh dear! ha

**Pauline** · 06-03-2009, 10:50 PM

I wouldn't get too bogged down with this, someone posted a snippet of what NCMA have added to their contracts about this and it was just a tiny box!!

Can't find it at the moment, perhaps they could post it again?

**christine e** · 07-03-2009, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by blackandsparkly

ARRRRGHHHHHH!!!! My head is going to explode soon!!!

I assumed that if the parents had parental responsibility they were not required to have legal contact! I got my parents to tick the PR yes box and the LC no box!

Surely no one has legal contact unless they apply for it through the court and they would only do this if they didn't have parental responsibility already?

And another thing that is really niggling me is, if this is oh so important then why havent I been asked to sign somethign like it for my son at school????

Hi

My parents who have parental responsbility have been ticking the YES box for Legal Contact but after reading about this on Sarah's website I started to think like you in that if they have parental responsiblility then they would have not been to court to apply for the right to legal contact and therefore should have ticked NO, but I can see that parents are not going to want to tick a box saying NO because they will interpret this as they are saying they do not have legal right of contact with their own children who are most probably living with them. If you and I are right then maybe a NOT APPLICABLE box should be introduced. Hope Sarah is out there reading this 'cos I think she really has got her head around this one and I for one would really appreciate her valued opinion on this one.

Cx

**Pauline** · 07-03-2009, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by christine e

I started to think like you in that if they have parental responsiblility then they would have not been to court to apply for the right to legal contact and therefore should have ticked NO, but I can see that parents are not going to want to tick a box saying NO because they will interpret this as they are saying they do not have legal right of contact with their own children who are most probably living with them. If you and I are right then maybe a NOT APPLICABLE box should be introduced.

Having read everything on this subject Christine I'm going to change my forms to read something like:

Name of person/s with Parental Responsibility..........

Please name anyone who has been granted Legal Contact with this child: ..................

What do you think?

**sarah707** · 07-03-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Pauline

Having read everything on this subject Christine I'm going to change my forms to read something like:

Name of person/s with Parental Responsibility..........

Please name anyone who has been granted Legal Contact with this child: ..................

What do you think?

I think this is the best idea.

I haven't asked my parents to say what they don't have... just what they do have. Where have tick boxes come from? To be honest I'm not sure they are necessary...

If someone has legal contact they will know about it because they will have to have been to court to get it. If they don't have it and haven't been to court I would say that they should just be able to leave it blank like you've put here Pauline.

**christine e** · 07-03-2009, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Pauline

Having read everything on this subject Christine I'm going to change my forms to read something like:

Name of person/s with Parental Responsibility..........

Please name anyone who has been granted Legal Contact with this child: ..................

What do you think?

Great idea Pauline I will be doing likwise.

Thanks

Cx