WARNING...NCMA........ did you know

[Pipsqueak]

I'm sorry but I think that comment is uncalled for and very unfair.

Do you actually know how many childminders are unhappy with them? A handful of people on this forum express their unhappyiness and tell us of their bad experiences,but that is not represenative of all cms who are members. After all you think of those on here that have bad experiences with parents but that doesn't mean that all cms do.

One of the main concerns has been the advise given by a firm of Solicitors who are not NCMA and they have tried to address this issue and I have no doubt that there will be some teething problems. NCMA do do a lot for childminders. You would be paying several hundred pounds a year to OFSTED for one if they hadn't talked down our reg fee to £35. and that helps ALL cms not just NCMA members.

NCMA may do a lot for childminders - after all that is their primary function and goal - HOWEVER they are failing badly at other things that really matter to the grass roots of it all. They are failing to listen and actually hear us.
We will never know how many have voted with their feet because I believe NCMA will never admit anything, however its rather telling that they are having to pull their own socks up and play catch up with other offerings.

Ok, there may only be a 'handful' on this forum... however I can tell you that out of the 20 people on our network (formal) 16 are with MM. MANY childminders I know through my extended work of support minding and just being round about as you do I would say the majority are MM. Just take a look at other forums - a good percentage of posters have nothing good to say about NCMA. I would have to wonder if this is why they struggle to get people to the regional meetings.

NCMA have managed really to alienate the very people they are supposed to be supporting.

I agree that their 'additional' services such as insurance and legal are the main bones of contention.. however these are provided in the NCMA name and therefore NCMA should be ensuring that these services are what we need.

I reiterate that the work NCMA do such as lobbying parliament is wonderful and perhaps really that is what they should stick to.....
Jack of all trades master of none.. springs to mind.....
either that or they need to LISTEN to us

So yes i agree with Ricky (in part) write and tell NCMA (customer services manager) exactly what you find is wrong with NCMA and what you expect from them and perhaps why you have departed to MM

[Hebs]

So yes i agree with Ricky (in part) write and tell NCMA (customer services manager) exactly what you find is wrong with NCMA and what you expect from them and perhaps why you have departed to MM

the same person who wanted his name REMOVED from this forum???

yes they really listen dont they

[rickysmiths]

I wrote 'do they know 'how many' not that 'do they know that all'........ You are assuming that I am assuming that 'all' am's are unhappy with ncma..... I don't assume that.

I actually personally find it offensive that the government has given the NCMA as well as the nursery alliance and others of similar ilk so much money when the ncma and others provide membership services and are not a 'for all' organisation...... I think it is wrong for that to be so.

Just my opinion but free on here to express it!

Sorry if it offends you rickysmiths!

jen x

Well ALL cms have benifited from the lower Ofsted Reg Fees and the lower Data protection Reg fees haven't they so I think NCMA do very much work for all cms wether or not they are members actually.

[Hebs]

shame they fail miserably in the parts that WE childminders REALLY need

[jumpinjen]

Well ALL cms have benifited from the lower Ofsted Reg Fees and the lower Data protection Reg fees haven't they so I think NCMA do very much work for all cms wether or not they are members actually.

I wasn't aware of that..... the fees have been the same since I registered so perhaps I missed the benefit there.... thanks for letting me know. Perhaps it is a perception thing..... I used to be a member or NCMA and went to a couple of regional forums but I was shocked at how elitist they were..... wanting the website password protected so that 'just any old CM' (and I quote) couldn't use the resources, and moaning about CMs who weren't members. I have never had insurance issues with them when I was a member and insured but couldn't afford to register with them and pay insurance this year so went with MM as the whole was cheaper with them. I am always a bit suspect about organisations that promote themselves as being for the whole but then have a membership section on the side..... especially if they are in receipt of millions of Gov. funding. Such as how can they lobby for what minders really need and want if they are being funded by centrtal Gov?? A bit of a conflict of interest IMO. Many minders round where I am don't see the point of them..... I would like to hear more of what they have done for all minders ricky if you can spare the time as you seem to be knowledgeable about them and I am not!

Thanks, Jen

[The Juggler]

It would be far more powerful for those who have complaints to write a letter outlining their own circumstances and complaint.

but then each complaint gets dealt with as individual and the powers that be in NCMA don't get to see the bigger picture.

I know we are a fairly small group of childminders (as a total of the UK) but if this many members of the forum have had bad experiences with Vincents then NCMA need to listen and think about the service (or lack of service) that they are paying someone to do and which represents them

Ricky I'm totally aware of how much lobbying and savings the NCMA have done for us and how much they have raised their profile but the day to day support that they offer (albeit through a third party company) is equally as important in the way we feel about them as a suppport organistion

[wendywu]

I put in a complaint about Ofsted years ago and Vincents acted for me, they were ok to start with. Then i had to put a complaint in about Vincents because i thought they were not doing their job

It was my MP who frightened Ofsted in the end not Vincents

I hope the new ins comp will be better, too late for me a changed from NCMA to MM after 15 years, sad really

[Penny1959]

In my opinion it seems that a few people are not getting the service they expect from the 'other' services such as insurance that NCMA provide but that the lobbying etc done by NCMA is appriciated.

Personally I am very pro NCMA for what they do for members and think that without a membership organisation like this childminders would not have their voice heard and many of the things we take forgranted would not be in place.

For those of you who like the idea of a membership organisation but not the things like insurance - just don't use their insurance services. I choose where I get my insurance from and have some from NCMA, some from MM and some from other companies - making sure I get thecover I require.

I also personally do not buy the NCMA paperwork products as find them too expensive and don't meet my needs.

However I have always been a member and will continue to do so because the more childminders who are members the more lobbying power NCMA have.

I attend the regional forums (and in fact will be standing for chair of the West Mids one on 7th May) - the reason for attending being that MY voice is heard and messages from members are taken from the forum direct to NCMA - and usually at least one member of staff attends. The childminders who represent us at NCMA - on the National Policy Forum also usually attend and they along with staff listen and take on board our comments.

So if you want your voice heard - why not attend a regional forum and have your say (as well as the discussions and debate there are opportunities at lunch time to speak to people.

However please remember - as with all membership organisations - it takes time for things to be acted on as the proper procedures have to be adheared to - but also remember that the more people who voice their opinion about the same things - the quicker it gets acted on.

Please don't think that I think everything that NCMA do is wonderful - I don't - sometimes they make mistakes/ get things wrong/ don't represent members as well or as quick as they could - but then I also make mistakes / get things wrong and I would rather people told me / talked to me about it and gave me opportunity to put my side of things / make changes, than just decide I am not worth bothering with.

Penny

[Splodge]

So what do you do when you complain to the ncma about vincents service and they pass the complaint onto vincents to investigate themselves and i have heard nothing from them about the complaint and nothing from them about the case they are supposed to be dealing with.

Surely if we are paying the ncma to provide this service and the service is not being provided properly then they should, now they have another team, be passing it onto them.

We are paying the ncma for a specific service and not being given it so surely they should be willing and able to transfer the case over.

The parent i am dealing would be thrilled if she knew what was going on.

[rickysmiths]

One issue that does seem to be fully grasped.

NCMA have not changed the Insurance Company that provides Public Liability Ins., it is still Royal Sun Alliance.

What has changed is that they no longer use Vincents Solicitors to provide Legal advise and help but have chosen to use a different company to provide this service.

I still think the best way to complain is to write a letter. They are all looked at and like any other organisation, if they receive a number of complaints on one topic this will be flagged up and looked into.

The thing about a good old fashioned letter is that people see it and can react to it. There is no harm in copying the letter to the Chair as well. As we have a Complaints Procedure, so do NCMA and they have to respond, it is in their interests to.

[Penny1959]

So what do you do when you complain to the ncma about vincents service and they pass the complaint onto vincents to investigate themselves and i have heard nothing from them about the complaint and nothing from them about the case they are supposed to be dealing with.Surely if we are paying the ncma to provide this service and the service is not being provided properly then they should, now they have another team, be passing it onto them.

We are paying the ncma for a specific service and not being given it so surely they should be willing and able to transfer the case over.

The parent i am dealing would be thrilled if she knew what was going on.

Please don't think that I don't agree with you concerns about insurance issues not being dealt with and I am sorry that yours is one of the apparently, many cases, that are stuck due to vincents not doing their job and the difficulties of another company taking on cases that are open.

I think you write to NCMA again to let them know that Vincents are not dealing with your case. NCMA have handled the situation correctly as your complaint is against Vincents not NCMA - as I see their duty is to listen to the facts that vincents are not dealing with yours or it seems other peoples cases and to do something about that.

And as they have now changed the company of solicitors that provide legal advice - that could be seen as doing something about it.

I agree that NCMA do have a duty to ensure that those using insurance services get what they pay for as it is sold under their banner - but this service is provided by a third party and so there will be complaints procedures in place both with NCMA and Vincents. Personally I would be checking what these procedures are and if they are being followed.

To pass the case onto the new company would require co operation on Vincents part - ie passing on documents. And agreeance from the new company to take on work that has been started by Vincents. This also needs following up with NCMA and Vincents to see what is being done to get this agreement in place as soon as possible.

I am not sure what it is you expect NCMA to do - they are not legal advisors and so can not handle this situation themselves - they can only put pressure on Vincents to resolve the case - (I don't know if this is happening but as I said before that is what I would be checking up on this) - and work with new solicitors to see if anyway they can take on open cases.

I hope yours and the other cases mentioned in this thread do get resolved very soon as must be very frustrating.

Penny

[Splodge]

Thanks penny, i do appreciate what you are saying, but i had given vincents a chance to respond to my concerns and they had not. So i wrote to ncma to ask for their help, and they passed it back to vincents to investigate, which they had already proven themselves incapable of doing, and which i had pointed out when i wrote to ncma.

I do not really have an axe to grind with the ncma. But the fact that when we are paying for a service to help with any problems we have, and that service is not good enough there doesn't seem to be anything in place, as maybe an intermediary, as vincents probably need somebody looking over their shoulder, at the very least, while they investigate themselves. Ifyswim.

[Penny1959]

Thanks penny, i do appreciate what you are saying, but i had given vincents a chance to respond to my concerns and they had not. So i wrote to ncma to ask for their help, and they passed it back to vincents to investigate, which they had already proven themselves incapable of doing, and which i had pointed out when i wrote to ncma.

I do not really have an axe to grind with the ncma. But the fact that when we are paying for a service to help with any problems we have, and that service is not good enough there doesn't seem to be anything in place, as maybe an intermediary, as vincents probably need somebody looking over their shoulder, at the very least, while they investigate themselves. Ifyswim.

You have a good point there and that is something we can urge NCMA to put in place - it might be a bit late for those cases stuck at the moment but I feel it is certainly something NCMA should be considering - covering themselves and members when services sold under the NCMA banner do not live up to expectations / fail to deliver the service.

Penny

[wendywu]

And i thought Ofsted did things the hard way, it seems the NCMA are going along the same route now.