What has annoyed you about PACEY?

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This might sound a daft questions but PACEY are always interested in their MEMBERS views.

Any comments made will be taken back to the CEO's so please be brief.

[bunyip]

At last - a sensible question. So, as briefly as I can:-

1. Re-branding was an unnecessary exercise in vanity. The "consultation" process was a sham exercise in delivering a "done deal". See numerous threads.

2.Widening membership has been handled badly. I do not oppose the policy. But I firmly believe those who do oppose it have been ignored. pacey is spinning this policy as a new dawn instead of explaining why the exec feels free to ride over its members' legitimate concerns. The "consultation" process was a sham exercise in delivering a "done deal". See numerous threads.

3. The ABC Pathway scheme. I don't necessarily oppose this. How TF can I - pacey hasn't even bothered to tell us about it!!!! On this point pacey cannot be accused of a sham "consultation" process cos there has been no consultation process whatsoever. See recent thread.

4. An increasing lack of confidence in pacey's desire to reflect the wishes of its membership. pacey is becoming a despot. It believes its job is to lead, and the duty of its membership is to follow. pacey has identified itself so strongly with "the interests of CMs" that the organisation assumes anything it does must be good for CMs: what's good for pacey must be good for CMs. pacey will decide what is good for us. If we disagree, we are off-message and will be ignored. See numerous threads and points 1,2,&3 above.

5. What is going on now will result in established members becoming disillusioned and leaving. However pacey membership will continue to grow through nursery staff joining up and recruitment through the ABC Pathway. pacey will thereby be able to blind itself that it "must be doing the right thing." See recent thread.

6. Re-branding is a mess. Stationery not back from the printers. Childish-looking logos. One of my parents would like to know what is so "professional" about an organisation for childcare/education that doesn't know how to use capital letters. Planning is what you do before the event.

7. Dumbing down. Could pacey possibly produce resources for or offer genuine support for any CM who wishes to rise above mere entry-level provision? I refer to resources like EYFS and You (a guide for people who can't read EYFS cos government documents don't have pictures.) I refer to pacey-led workshops and briefings that tell me nothing I don't already know or couldn't gain from 1/2 hour on this forum.

8. An NCMA/pacey DO who tells my CM group that the government will have its way over More Great Childcare, no matter what, so there's no point campaigning against it.

9. The same DO who tells the group that we'd better prepare for agencies and hope that it's still possible to remain independent. Then she tells us the local NCMA/pacey office has already been talking about the possibility of becoming an agency.

10. The fact that, when I raise a concern about points 9 & 10. It takes 4 weeks of emails and phone calls before I'm allowed to speak with anyone at pacey HQ, followed by a fob-off emailed reply that "all staff have been briefed". (Well, eat your heart out Alistair Campbell.)

Is this worth it, or will our concerns be 'noted' and ignored?

[Carol M]

With regard to Bunyip's no.3.......... Too little, too late...... AGAIN I no longer feel like a member who's opinions are valued.
Why can't pacey get info out to members and allow time for members to respond with their views, I am thinking..... won't make any difference anyway!
I am all for pacey acting as our professional association but I want to know what they are doing, or even considering and keeping me as a member "in the loop" before info becomes available from other sources. It just adds to the feeling that they are ploughing ahead with their own agenda without me!
Carol x

[Simona]

My questions have been posted on ncma local alongside those of other worried cms about the new initiative, where they are picked up by the CEOs
via those who manage the forum
I am not against women finding jobs but I am concerned at the cminding market being flooded with new cms where there is not enough work for existing ones
I am not annoyed I am concerned at how ncma does things these days
I feel ALL NPF should input in ncma local and link to members there where there should be open debate
why is ncma local the only forum that does not list the hits the posts receive
We as members have been consulted and ignored...this will not change the way ncma operates
The management is too 'distant' from the members
We need an 'accountable' structure in ncma with 'elected' members responsible for representing members' views
I do not like pacey, never wanted it and will not refer to it..I remain a member of ncma
As mentioned below the new brand is childish...not serious enough for me or reflective of our status

[SammySplodger]

Bunyip has covered pretty much everything very eloquently already (thank you).

I will just add the following:

NCMA allowed me to buy a large amount of stationery from their website - which is now out of date. There should have been either an obvious warning about the impending name change, or the ability to buy the new-style stationery far earlier. I feel totally ripped off.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg...

My disillusionment with NCMA/PACEY has been building slowly since last September and this latest ABC initiative was the final straw for me - I was very angry yesterday and whilst my comments were not particularly well-constructed, they still reflect how I feel.

The constant 'dripping' of information leads me to feel that they cannot be trusted. What else is going on in the background that they can't tell us? If the article hadn't come out on Friday, when would we have been informed? Why do we have to wait several days for a considered response?

It is very hard to know WHO to trust these days, so I am not wanting to 'join' any particular organisation until we can truly see how the land lies....

So, I am gutted that the one organisation I did choose to join (and give my money to) has now 'morphed' into something else. I didn't sign up for that.

[Carla Watts]

whats pacey??

[sarah707]

whats pacey??

It is the new name for the ncma. If you are an ncma member you should log into your member area for more information

[bunyip]

whats pacey??

pacey = Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years

"Professional" because they believe the myth that, if you say something often enough it will become true.

"Early Years" because the membership has now been opened up to all EY workers, and not just CMs and nannies.

At the moment, they appear content to lose their long-standing membership whilst recruiting new members to fill the gaps. This would also fit the 'dumbed-down' level of resourcing they offer.

Therefore, it may be better to think of the acronym as meaning: Personnel All Changes Every Year

[christine e]

pacey = Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years

"Professional" because they believe the myth that, if you say something often enough it will become true.

"Early Years" because the membership has now been opened up to all EY workers, and not just CMs and nannies.

At the moment, they appear content to lose their long-standing membership whilst recruiting new members to fill the gaps. This would also fit the 'dumbed-down' level of resourcing they offer.

Therefore, it may be better to think of the acronym as meaning: Personnel All Changes Every Year

bunyip members were consulted over what they wanted to be included in the new name and 'professional' was very much the most important word to the vast majority of members who contributed be in at forums or online

[bunyip]

bunyip members were consulted over what they wanted to be included in the new name and 'professional' was very much the most important word to the vast majority of members who contributed be in at forums or online

I'm not disputing that at all. But it is language being used Humpty-Dumpty fashion.

[Carla Watts]

Oh right, I am a member, but this is the first I have heard of it. Do I have to do anything? I have contracts with them, are they still ok?

[rickysmiths]

Oh right, I am a member, but this is the first I have heard of it. Do I have to do anything? I have contracts with them, are they still ok?

Yes they are all fine don't worry. All the NCMA logo paperwork is still valid as you get more it will now have the pacey logo on instead. It is still the same organization but they have re branded and opened membership up to all Early years professionals and not just Childminders and Nannies..

[SammySplodger]

Oh right, I am a member, but this is the first I have heard of it. Do I have to do anything? I have contracts with them, are they still ok?

And you just log in on the PACEY website with your existing NCMA membership details and (pretty much) the same info is all there, moved around a bit with new pictures and branding.
:-)

[Simona]

Thank you Bunyip

Let's recap
1 ncma is against agencies and not willing to even listen how they are being developed

2. ncma will be part of the recruitment of new cms with Barnardo's...if it is possible that those new cms will have to register with an agency, is ncma then endorsing the agencies via the back door?

3. cms are literally knocking on LAs' doors to get clarification on accessing the funding in September if good/outstanding and confirmation we do not need to belong to a network...where is ncma backing for cms on this when all we meet with is little engagement?

4. ncma tweeted info at the local event last Saturday from Birmingham when the DfE guy was being very clear on the above (3)...has ncma issued a statement encouraging cms and LAs to co-operate?

I could go on and on...but do let us know Chatterbox what you achieve as NPF when you report our concerns...
the name pacey may stay with you but for me it is ncma until I decide to endorse their name and widening of m'ship and maybe renew my m'ship...at this rate being independent truly means braking free from organisations who all have their own agenda and plough the money saved into looking for training and support elsewhere

[Simona]

Cms will be attending the 'pacey' launch events in April/May...or at least those who managed to book the limited spaces anyway.... and I am sure we will put our worries directly to them there
All events appear to be the same with same agenda and final discussion on More Great Childcare and we will feedback to those interested to know how they went

[Simona]

I also remember members saying clearly they wanted to be referred to as the 'professional' not the association???
they also said they wanted cms to feature in the title?
and many disagreed on Early Years being included...they preferred education and childcare because EY takes no account of the older children we look after???

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I also remember members saying clearly they wanted to be referred to as the 'professional' not the association???
they also said they wanted cms to feature in the title?
and many disagreed on Early Years being included...they preferred education and childcare because EY takes no account of the older children we look after???

but there were others who stated the opposite. I know that no one believes this but we spent ages in London sorting it out. If anyone feels really passionate, please become an NPF at the next regional meetings.

[bunyip]

but there were others who stated the opposite. I know that no one believes this but we spent ages in London sorting it out. If anyone feels really passionate, please become an NPF at the next regional meetings.

I'm really passionate. I'm passionate about childminding, children, my work, my business, my family, my sick relative. These all need my time, effort, and strength at the moment. This leaves very little for becoming an NPF. I shouldn't have to join or become anything in order to sort out the sorry mess for them.

I understand what you're saying, but no-one should have to run everything themselves to make sure things are run well. It's like saying I have to become a local councillor if I want to have my bins collected properly.

I appreciate the time that NPFs give up, but that's their choice. We don't all have that time to give up without something suffering elsewhere in our lives, homes, families, businesses, etc. Even attending regional forum is becoming uncertain. 3 times I’ve filled in my regional forum booking form, determined to go and say something. 3 times I’m torn it up again, totally depressed at the idea of wasting a day to be ignored by them.

Don't members have a right to representation without expecting every single member to represent themselves? If not, then what is the point of a so-called "professional association"?

[rickysmiths]

I'm really passionate. I'm passionate about childminding, children, my work, my business, my family, my sick relative. These all need my time, effort, and strength at the moment. This leaves very little for becoming an NPF. I shouldn't have to join or become anything in order to sort out the sorry mess for them.

I understand what you're saying, but no-one should have to run everything themselves to make sure things are run well. It's like saying I have to become a local councillor if I want to have my bins collected properly.

I appreciate the time that NPFs give up, but that's their choice. We don't all have that time to give up without something suffering elsewhere in our lives, homes, families, businesses, etc. Even attending regional forum is becoming uncertain. 3 times I’ve filled in my regional forum booking form, determined to go and say something. 3 times I’m torn it up again, totally depressed at the idea of wasting a day to be ignored by them.

Don't members have a right to representation without expecting every single member to represent themselves? If not, then what is the point of a so-called "professional association"?

Bunyip are you going to any of the pacey events in April? Not sure where you are.

[Smiley]

I have been following this thread and to be honest I've become more exasperated. I'm in agreement with the last posts by Simona and Bunyip. I attended the forums about POS, widening membership etc and several of the NCMA directors were in attendance. Staff were frustrated because we were 'negative' and wouldn't write any 'pros' that was because we didn't have any!

Over several years I've offered constructive criticism about the ineffective communication between some of the different regions NPF members and disregard relating to feedback after their meetings in Bromley. I could make many more comments however, it is not appropriate now. It concerns me greatly that this thread is possibly being used by a NPF member as a platform to seek views in order to take to Bromley. Is the question of which this thread is about going to be asked at the regional forums in May? Despite what we think we will not be actively listened to!