What has annoyed you about PACEY?

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This might sound a daft questions but PACEY are always interested in their MEMBERS views.

Any comments made will be taken back to the CEO's so please be brief.

[bunyip]

At last - a sensible question. So, as briefly as I can:-

1. Re-branding was an unnecessary exercise in vanity. The "consultation" process was a sham exercise in delivering a "done deal". See numerous threads.

2.Widening membership has been handled badly. I do not oppose the policy. But I firmly believe those who do oppose it have been ignored. pacey is spinning this policy as a new dawn instead of explaining why the exec feels free to ride over its members' legitimate concerns. The "consultation" process was a sham exercise in delivering a "done deal". See numerous threads.

3. The ABC Pathway scheme. I don't necessarily oppose this. How TF can I - pacey hasn't even bothered to tell us about it!!!! On this point pacey cannot be accused of a sham "consultation" process cos there has been no consultation process whatsoever. See recent thread.

4. An increasing lack of confidence in pacey's desire to reflect the wishes of its membership. pacey is becoming a despot. It believes its job is to lead, and the duty of its membership is to follow. pacey has identified itself so strongly with "the interests of CMs" that the organisation assumes anything it does must be good for CMs: what's good for pacey must be good for CMs. pacey will decide what is good for us. If we disagree, we are off-message and will be ignored. See numerous threads and points 1,2,&3 above.

5. What is going on now will result in established members becoming disillusioned and leaving. However pacey membership will continue to grow through nursery staff joining up and recruitment through the ABC Pathway. pacey will thereby be able to blind itself that it "must be doing the right thing." See recent thread.

6. Re-branding is a mess. Stationery not back from the printers. Childish-looking logos. One of my parents would like to know what is so "professional" about an organisation for childcare/education that doesn't know how to use capital letters. Planning is what you do before the event.

7. Dumbing down. Could pacey possibly produce resources for or offer genuine support for any CM who wishes to rise above mere entry-level provision? I refer to resources like EYFS and You (a guide for people who can't read EYFS cos government documents don't have pictures.) I refer to pacey-led workshops and briefings that tell me nothing I don't already know or couldn't gain from 1/2 hour on this forum.

8. An NCMA/pacey DO who tells my CM group that the government will have its way over More Great Childcare, no matter what, so there's no point campaigning against it.

9. The same DO who tells the group that we'd better prepare for agencies and hope that it's still possible to remain independent. Then she tells us the local NCMA/pacey office has already been talking about the possibility of becoming an agency.

10. The fact that, when I raise a concern about points 9 & 10. It takes 4 weeks of emails and phone calls before I'm allowed to speak with anyone at pacey HQ, followed by a fob-off emailed reply that "all staff have been briefed". (Well, eat your heart out Alistair Campbell.)

Is this worth it, or will our concerns be 'noted' and ignored?

[Carol M]

With regard to Bunyip's no.3.......... Too little, too late...... AGAIN I no longer feel like a member who's opinions are valued.
Why can't pacey get info out to members and allow time for members to respond with their views, I am thinking..... won't make any difference anyway!
I am all for pacey acting as our professional association but I want to know what they are doing, or even considering and keeping me as a member "in the loop" before info becomes available from other sources. It just adds to the feeling that they are ploughing ahead with their own agenda without me!
Carol x

[Simona]

My questions have been posted on ncma local alongside those of other worried cms about the new initiative, where they are picked up by the CEOs
via those who manage the forum
I am not against women finding jobs but I am concerned at the cminding market being flooded with new cms where there is not enough work for existing ones
I am not annoyed I am concerned at how ncma does things these days
I feel ALL NPF should input in ncma local and link to members there where there should be open debate
why is ncma local the only forum that does not list the hits the posts receive
We as members have been consulted and ignored...this will not change the way ncma operates
The management is too 'distant' from the members
We need an 'accountable' structure in ncma with 'elected' members responsible for representing members' views
I do not like pacey, never wanted it and will not refer to it..I remain a member of ncma
As mentioned below the new brand is childish...not serious enough for me or reflective of our status

[SammySplodger]

Bunyip has covered pretty much everything very eloquently already (thank you).

I will just add the following:

NCMA allowed me to buy a large amount of stationery from their website - which is now out of date. There should have been either an obvious warning about the impending name change, or the ability to buy the new-style stationery far earlier. I feel totally ripped off.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg...

My disillusionment with NCMA/PACEY has been building slowly since last September and this latest ABC initiative was the final straw for me - I was very angry yesterday and whilst my comments were not particularly well-constructed, they still reflect how I feel.

The constant 'dripping' of information leads me to feel that they cannot be trusted. What else is going on in the background that they can't tell us? If the article hadn't come out on Friday, when would we have been informed? Why do we have to wait several days for a considered response?

It is very hard to know WHO to trust these days, so I am not wanting to 'join' any particular organisation until we can truly see how the land lies....

So, I am gutted that the one organisation I did choose to join (and give my money to) has now 'morphed' into something else. I didn't sign up for that.

[Carla Watts]

whats pacey??

[sarah707]

whats pacey??

It is the new name for the ncma. If you are an ncma member you should log into your member area for more information

[bunyip]

whats pacey??

pacey = Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years

"Professional" because they believe the myth that, if you say something often enough it will become true.

"Early Years" because the membership has now been opened up to all EY workers, and not just CMs and nannies.

At the moment, they appear content to lose their long-standing membership whilst recruiting new members to fill the gaps. This would also fit the 'dumbed-down' level of resourcing they offer.

Therefore, it may be better to think of the acronym as meaning: Personnel All Changes Every Year

[Carla Watts]

Oh right, I am a member, but this is the first I have heard of it. Do I have to do anything? I have contracts with them, are they still ok?

[christine e]

pacey = Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years

"Professional" because they believe the myth that, if you say something often enough it will become true.

"Early Years" because the membership has now been opened up to all EY workers, and not just CMs and nannies.

At the moment, they appear content to lose their long-standing membership whilst recruiting new members to fill the gaps. This would also fit the 'dumbed-down' level of resourcing they offer.

Therefore, it may be better to think of the acronym as meaning: Personnel All Changes Every Year

bunyip members were consulted over what they wanted to be included in the new name and 'professional' was very much the most important word to the vast majority of members who contributed be in at forums or online

[bunyip]

bunyip members were consulted over what they wanted to be included in the new name and 'professional' was very much the most important word to the vast majority of members who contributed be in at forums or online

I'm not disputing that at all. But it is language being used Humpty-Dumpty fashion.

[Simona]

I also remember members saying clearly they wanted to be referred to as the 'professional' not the association???
they also said they wanted cms to feature in the title?
and many disagreed on Early Years being included...they preferred education and childcare because EY takes no account of the older children we look after???

[rickysmiths]

Oh right, I am a member, but this is the first I have heard of it. Do I have to do anything? I have contracts with them, are they still ok?

Yes they are all fine don't worry. All the NCMA logo paperwork is still valid as you get more it will now have the pacey logo on instead. It is still the same organization but they have re branded and opened membership up to all Early years professionals and not just Childminders and Nannies..

[SammySplodger]

Oh right, I am a member, but this is the first I have heard of it. Do I have to do anything? I have contracts with them, are they still ok?

And you just log in on the PACEY website with your existing NCMA membership details and (pretty much) the same info is all there, moved around a bit with new pictures and branding.
:-)

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I also remember members saying clearly they wanted to be referred to as the 'professional' not the association???
they also said they wanted cms to feature in the title?
and many disagreed on Early Years being included...they preferred education and childcare because EY takes no account of the older children we look after???

but there were others who stated the opposite. I know that no one believes this but we spent ages in London sorting it out. If anyone feels really passionate, please become an NPF at the next regional meetings.

[Simona]

You have asked to state what has annoyed us about ncma...
I am only reporting my experiences as I was not at the other meetings as are other cms
Unfortunately we have no statistics to compare who wanted what against the other but my experience is based on attending 3 regional meetings
A bit late now to feel 'passionate' about the widening of the m'ship or rebranding??

[Chatterbox Childcare]

You have asked to state what has annoyed us about ncma...
I am only reporting my experiences as I was not at the other meetings as are other cms
Unfortunately we have no statistics to compare who wanted what against the other but my experience is based on attending 3 regional meetings
A bit late now to feel 'passionate' about the widening of the m'ship or rebranding??

All the NPF's have the data, speak to your areas ones and ask for it or as a volunteer as Sarah

Any more questions to take back?

[CLL]

I wish I would have known their intentions in advance. My DO told me to go for MM insurance as it was much better. I opted for NCMA as I thought being a member would seem more professional to parents. I applied for the full starter pack and insurance. They rebrand a few weeks later and now everything is out of date. I think the name pacey sounds stupid and feel embarrassed about using it. This is obviously only ONE of the things I am annoyed about but the rest of the points have already been stated below.

[bunyip]

but there were others who stated the opposite. I know that no one believes this but we spent ages in London sorting it out. If anyone feels really passionate, please become an NPF at the next regional meetings.

I'm really passionate. I'm passionate about childminding, children, my work, my business, my family, my sick relative. These all need my time, effort, and strength at the moment. This leaves very little for becoming an NPF. I shouldn't have to join or become anything in order to sort out the sorry mess for them.

I understand what you're saying, but no-one should have to run everything themselves to make sure things are run well. It's like saying I have to become a local councillor if I want to have my bins collected properly.

I appreciate the time that NPFs give up, but that's their choice. We don't all have that time to give up without something suffering elsewhere in our lives, homes, families, businesses, etc. Even attending regional forum is becoming uncertain. 3 times I’ve filled in my regional forum booking form, determined to go and say something. 3 times I’m torn it up again, totally depressed at the idea of wasting a day to be ignored by them.

Don't members have a right to representation without expecting every single member to represent themselves? If not, then what is the point of a so-called "professional association"?

[Simona]

Bunyip ...I would not worry about the coming forums or events (if that is what you are referring to) ...all are overbooked or should we say not enough spaces have been made available/planned for all the cms who want to attend...so many are left disappointed considering this in the ncma launch of the rebrand???

I really have to ask the reason for this post 'what has annoyed you about pacey'?...too late now to ask???
why is this question not been asked in ncma local where the NPF presence is very thin on the ground and where the CEOs can pick up the answers directly???

If something is annoying cms or has annoyed cms in the past I am sure we are capable of telling ncma ourselves...in their forum or by email directly ...not ask an NPF member in another forum to go backwards and forward like a messanger...
also the ncma events are coming up soon so there is the chance to express our views???

I have found this coming and going between this forum and ncma really a puzzling thing just to get a few bits of clarifications... may I suggest the same question is posted on ncma local? lets see what reaction we get there?