How long is a contract valid for?

[Smiley]

Of all the childminders I have spoken to nobody wanted the widening of membership, the debate at the forum I attended was not a debate, it was a done deal, the potential new names were fed to us, we were all negative and told it would be mentioned but we knew what the outcome would be. Bad timing for the rebranding, I haven't used NCMA contracts or paperwork for years. In my opinion we didn't need the word 'professional' in the new name it doesn't make me feel anymore professional just because its in a title

[Simona]

Like you Smiley I do not use their paperwork but have started using the contracts recently in addition to my more comprehensive Terms and Conditions and other information provided to parents
I suppose we feel more 'legally' protected by using theirs but not sure it works that way...so it is an added cost
Glad to hear you share the notion that the debate was really leading to a 'done deal'...we all felt like that at my meeting
Professional refers to the associations not to us as 'professional members'...I too would have liked this as referring to us not them...too late now but at least now we have a choice of who will represent us the best???

[rickysmiths]

I contacted Pacey legal dept on Monday
The present NCMA contracts are valid for 1 year from their rebranding date...as they rebranded in March 12 next year you need to have the Pacey ones in place

At one stage they used to advise we review them every 6 months...not sure about you but my parents do not wish that unless of course the agreement is changed in terms of days and hours...so for me yearly is very appropriate.

I don't think this is what Chatterbox has said.

I don't see how the NCMA ones can suddenly expire in 11th March 2014!! They are still valid contracts and they ADVISE you to review them every 12 months but it is not compulsory.

To be honest anyone who still has a 3 page NCMA Contract in use with a parent still has a valid contract.

[Simona]

That is what I was informed and have shared with you...maybe someone wants to check again
If different info is given it will only cause confusion but I hope the legal dept gave the right information?

I have just posted the question of validity of contracts with the 'NCMA' logo on PACEY Local and hopefully we will get a clear answer...

[angeldelight]

No input from me

Just going to say I'm sooooo glad I changed to MM years ago

Sounds like your all having a great time with this

Why don't you all change to MM if your going to change your paperwork etc anyway? ...problem solved ha ha

Angel xx

[bunyip]

No input from me

Just going to say I'm sooooo glad I changed to MM years ago

Sounds like your all having a great time with this

Why don't you all change to MM if your going to change your paperwork etc anyway? ...problem solved ha ha

Angel xx

Since you asked.............NCMA/PACEY may be pushing me a little close these days, but:-

1. I don't walk out on an organisation cos they're having a few problems.

2. I refuse to support a company that is actively providing a mouthpiece for the Truss-ite acolytes who wish to promote profit-hungry agencies at the expense of personalized independent childminding as we know it.

[Simona]

Angeldelight...we are talking about contracts not 'paperwork'...neither are a necessity to purchase from any association if you can devise your own and put your copyright on them
You can do your own contract and customise your paperwork (anything relating to your business and finance) or documentation (all that relates to children's progress as in the Reggio Emilia model) ..two different things altogether
I think a lot of cms choose a contract from PACEY because they feel legally protected in case of problems?

At this stage I am utterly confused between Home Childcarer, @Home Childcare, UKCMA and Morton Michel...is there a connection between all these???
Hurray for being independent of all of them!!

[sarah707]

2. I refuse to support a company that is actively providing a mouthpiece for the Truss-ite acolytes who wish to promote profit-hungry agencies at the expense of personalized independent childminding as we know it.

Where??

I have written an article in the latest Home Childcare magazine and i have been asked to write a second one... My articles, as I am sure you can imagine, are not exactly pro agencies!

My understanding is that the magazine is a mouthpiece for anyone who wants to write in it ... so you could submit a piece if you wanted just like anyone else

[rickysmiths]

Angeldelight...we are talking about contracts not 'paperwork'...neither are a necessity to purchase from any association if you can devise your own and put your copyright on them
You can do your own contract and customise your paperwork (anything relating to your business and finance) or documentation (all that relates to children's progress as in the Reggio Emilia model) ..two different things altogether
I think a lot of cms choose a contract from PACEY because they feel legally protected in case of problems?

At this stage I am utterly confused between Home Childcarer, @Home Childcare, UKCMA and Morton Michel...is there a connection between all these???
Hurray for being independent of all of them!!

I believe Home Childcarer is produced by MM and MM provide insurance for UKCMA members if they want it but if you add UKCMA membership and MM insurance together it is a lot more expensive than Pacey membership and insurance.

As I understand it Childcare.co.uk are also providing Insurance for Childminder via Blu Fin who used to be linked with NCMA but are no longer linked now they are Pacey thank goodness I always thought that it was an unhealthy relationship.

[bunyip]

Where??

I have written an article in the latest Home Childcare magazine and i have been asked to write a second one... My articles, as I am sure you can imagine, are not exactly pro agencies!

My understanding is that the magazine is a mouthpiece for anyone who wants to write in it ... so you could submit a piece if you wanted just like anyone else

Sarah, I wouldn't dream of suggesting that your articles were in any way pro-agency.

OTOH, I have it on good authority that MM were "very happy" to publish Yvette's (@homechildcare) pro-agency propaganda in Home Childcare magazine last year. The training wing of @homechildcare are openly pushing MM's "highly supportive" attitude toward agencies. One of their 'learners' (a volunteer at my local Children's Centre who is applying for CM registration) was asked why she would possibly want to join NCMA (as it was at the time) when @homechildcare and MM were "working very closely together" and would soon be able to offer her a support/insurance package with which to work within an agency framework.

I appreciate that one of the editorial strengths of Home Childcare magazine is that it will publish pretty much anything that is childcare related, without needing to follow a policy line such as PACEY's the childcare professional (and as an added bonus, their publishers know when to use a 'shift' key. ) But MM's editorial line seems to be based on an entirely commercial imperative that doesn't reflect the aim of independent CMs to protect quality childcare in the face of Ms. Truss's attempts to undermine our work.

"The first condition of the freedom of the press is that it is not a commercial enterprise."

[Simona]

Well well...one learns new things everyday...thanks for all the explanations as I have been with PACEY since I started cminding and stuck with their PLI/motor/household insurance but I can see there is going to be more choice soon

Has anyone heard of TRIO?...apparently they are another association representing cms but I have not seen anything about them...are they worth adding to the 4 now representing cms?

[bunyip]

I'm thinking of starting a new organisation to help CMs get the lo's to finish their meals. It's called Practically All Children Eat Yoghurt.

Do you think it will take off, or is the acronym a non-starter?

[manjay]

I'm thinking of starting a new organisation to help CMs get the lo's to finish their meals. It's called Practically All Children Eat Yoghurt.

Do you think it will take off, or is the acronym a non-starter?

I rather like that acronym Bunyip!! but then you know I am biased

[Simona]

You are awful...bit I like it!!!

For those against agencies and no wish to join I thought we could have
No Child Minder Available ........thus resurrecting NCMA
and to protest at the DfE/Gove/Truss/Wilshaw/Gregory quintet: Please Leave us Alone (in case PLA rebrand and vacate their acronym we could snatch it!!)

Great to have a bit of a laugh today considering the poor teachers at the TUC conference are calling for 'civil disobedience' and strikes against Gove and calling for him to respect them and attacking Wilshaw by calling for a boycott of the inspectorate ...wonder what would happen if teachers and early years decided on a day of action?

If Gove must go Wilshaw should definetely follow...they are two peas in a pod...Truss and Gregory are like the characters in Cinderella...yes you know who I mean???

[bunyip]

You are awful...bit I like it!!!

For those against agencies and no wish to join I thought we could have
No Child Minder Available ........thus resurrecting NCMA
and to protest at the DfE/Gove/Truss/Wilshaw/Gregory quintet: Please Leave us Alone (in case PLA rebrand and vacate their acronym we could snatch it!!)

Great to have a bit of a laugh today considering the poor teachers at the TUC conference are calling for 'civil disobedience' and strikes against Gove and calling for him to respect them and attacking Wilshaw by calling for a boycott of the inspectorate ...wonder what would happen if teachers and early years decided on a day of action?

If Gove must go Wilshaw should definetely follow...they are two peas in a pod...Truss and Gregory are like the characters in Cinderella...yes you know who I mean???

Nothing wrong with a good riot.

[Simona]

I contacted PACEY again this morning...not the helpline, not the legal dept but the dept that offers support to cms.
I asked about the contract and its validity depending on which logo is on the one we use now and in a year's time...that dept will contact the legal dept and put out some information to clarify all this so it is in black and white

I also posted the question on PACEY Local and suggetsed clarification should be posted on there for all to see and refer to...

With regards to renewing a contract every 6 months or every year I was informed it is 'good practice' to do so but not necessary if nothing has changed such as fees, days of attendace or hours...I am fairly happy with that
What would be good is if a contract had a special 'review' section which we could sign again and consider that a review when no other details need reviewing....if you know what I mean?

[manjay]

What would be good is if a contract had a special 'review' section which we could sign again and consider that a review when no other details need reviewing....if you know what I mean?

My PACEY contracts already have this on. I know mine are different as they are bilingual but I am guessing it is on the English version too. Mine have 2 spaces for review dates and signatures but that takes account of the Welsh part of the contract so it may be different on the English ones.

[angeldelight]

Since you asked.............NCMA/PACEY may be pushing me a little close these days, but:-

1. I don't walk out on an organisation cos they're having a few problems.

2. I refuse to support a company that is actively providing a mouthpiece for the Truss-ite acolytes who wish to promote profit-hungry agencies at the expense of personalized independent childminding as we know it.

Oooooh my comments were really light hearted and just to make you smile

I honestly could not care what insurance company people choose to have ,I haven't the time to have debates about them either ...

I think mm and pacey both have good and bad points

Everyone is so serious in this forum lately that even I'm starting to stay away

Angel xx

[ChocolateChip]

Well well...one learns new things everyday...thanks for all the explanations as I have been with PACEY since I started cminding and stuck with their PLI/motor/household insurance but I can see there is going to be more choice soon

Has anyone heard of TRIO?...apparently they are another association representing cms but I have not seen anything about them...are they worth adding to the 4 now representing cms?

Trio used to have the contract to provide EY support and training in our area, my DO was employed by them at the time but they lost it to someone else last year. Have no idea what their current/ future plans might be.

[angeldelight]

Trio used to have the contract to provide EY support and training in our area, my DO was employed by them at the time but they lost it to someone else last year. Have no idea what their current/ future plans might be.

Yes I agree with that my friend told me

She knows someone who is involved with them ..I will see if she can find out their plans

Xxx