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    Im still trying to get hold of Ofsted. Thank you for your support. I've had no feedback form what so ever!!! Even checked my trash bin incase I deleted in error. Inspector said that all other areas were good but because they have had to action me on this area I have to be graded as 'Requires improvement' so my understanding is that should I not have had this child I would've been a good.

    I will keep you all posted x Thanks again.

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    Will mention no feedback form when I speak to Ofsted too x
    Last edited by It's a small world; 05-11-2015 at 10:59 AM.

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    You must try to fight this, ask Sarah Neville to raise this with the OBC too - if they are going to mark us down for not supporting EAL children then it will prevent childminders from taking them on in the first place - we were recently told on an EAL training course that it is important for parents to speak to child in their own language at home and for us to speak to them in English in our settings as we could be teaching them incorrect pronunciation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by It's a small world View Post
    Will mention no feedback form when I speak to Ofsted too x
    Your feedback form should have come through at the same time as your report via email. I think you said you've not received the report yet so you wont have received the feedback form
    Time Out.. The perfect time for thinking about what you're going to destroy next.

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  7. #25
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    it's a small world...these are helpful guidelines for bilinguism on the F/Years website...also there is a National Strategy document that is very good.

    If you feel you have done all those and followed EYFS...and parents' wishes... then check the inspection report for factual statements...if they are not then you have reason to raise a concern
    Get someone to read the report with you

    Supporting Children learning English as an Additional Language | From pregnancy to children aged 5

    http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/wp...d_Language.pdf

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    [QUOTE=Simona;1411457]it's a small world...these are helpful guidelines for bilinguism on the F/Years website...also there is a National Strategy document that is very good.

    If you feel you have done all those and followed EYFS...and parents' wishes... then check the inspection report for factual statements...if they are not then you have reason to raise a concern
    Get someone to read the report with you

    Supporting Children learning English as an Additional Language | From pregnancy to children aged 5

    http://www.foundationyears.org.uk/wp...d_Language.pdf[/QU

    Thank you x Not sure if Im reading this right but looking at these links to me its saying I should learn the childs second language and pronunciation in order for the child to develop . Will have a proper look later. I have displays all over my house not necessarily aimed at EAL children but children who are not at the age of reading yet. I offer parent paperwork to be translated into home language (happy for it to be in English) I tried to learn basic words when child started but some words were difficult to pronounce and remember, child was quite unsettled for some time so I focused on settling them and making them become accustomed to new environments - groups for socialising and playing with different resources from those that I have at home, visits to parks for running around and climbing , visiting local lake to see wildlife birds etc. Visiting library borrowing picture books etc. So are these links saying I have to learn the basic languages and their correct pronunciation ? Do I have to have flashcards and say it in Latvian and then in English. how far do I go ? Do I have to say the Latvian word then the English word for everything? Its so confusing. I was so proud how far this child had come in 9 months from sitting in the corner crying at anyone who came near them or even looking at them, to now running around playgroups. Passing toys to other children and babbling and smiling . Yes we do have days where they may become upset because something is new but they soon adjust. Im now doubting whether I have done enough for this child even though parent does want me to speak English to them. As mentioned before it is now making me reconsider taking on children with EAL. Maybe they are better with a childminder who has EAL child is 19 months

    What about nursery and reception and schools. Do they have to speak home language too ? They may have an assistant who has EAL . But most children regardless of nationality will speak and be spoken to in English at school I assume? So why do we have to be different. I understand they are learning home language but surely by doing this at home and me doing English in my settings they are learning both languages? The more I think about it the more I get annoyed. x
    Last edited by It's a small world; 05-11-2015 at 01:22 PM.

  9. #27
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    No...you don't have to do all that!!!...they are guidelines.
    I had Chinese children but did not learn Chinese!

    All we can do is ask for a few words in their home language just to help the child in case they are in need of a prompt!
    I used gestures a lot, shared books from home
    Of course the parents want the child to be spoken in English...that is the whole point...and Ofsted have to understand that parental wishes are paramount.
    When we care for these children their bilinguism is developing...sorry I refuse to call them EAL...just a bug bear!

    Bilingual children need to 'ruminate' on both languages from early on to decode...and they are good at that!
    I am bilingual myself with a little French and a few Spanish words and I have never being picked up in 5 inspections.

    Once I had a German parent fluent in English, German and Italian...so pick up times were rather interesting!
    She gave me a long list of every day words in German and all was sorted

    We must remember children go to school so young now when their language has not been given opportunities to develop fully...what we want to avoid is them being labelled as failing!!
    Imagine what would happen if a child in reception with little English is the subject of the Baseline Assessment?...the ticking exercise will not help there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    No...you don't have to do all that!!!...they are guidelines.
    I had Chinese children but did not learn Chinese!

    All we can do is ask for a few words in their home language just to help the child in case they are in need of a prompt!
    I used gestures a lot, shared books from home
    Of course the parents want the child to be spoken in English...that is the whole point...and Ofsted have to understand that parental wishes are paramount.
    When we care for these children their bilinguism is developing...sorry I refuse to call them EAL...just a bug bear!

    Bilingual children need to 'ruminate' on both languages from early on to decode...and they are good at that!
    I am bilingual myself with a little French and a few Spanish words and I have never being picked up in 5 inspections.

    Once I had a German parent fluent in English, German and Italian...so pick up times were rather interesting!
    She gave me a long list of every day words in German and all was sorted

    We must remember children go to school so young now when their language has not been given opportunities to develop fully...what we want to avoid is them being labelled as failing!!
    Imagine what would happen if a child in reception with little English is the subject of the Baseline Assessment?...the ticking exercise will not help there!
    Thank you. Sorry Im just getting frustrated and everyone seems to think that I am supporting this 'bilingual' child. I did learn a few basics but as mentioned child was quiet unsettled to begin with, but have come on so much. Since Ofsted parent has provided a few extra words for me . Child is not singled out because they are bilingual all children treated the same. Children of same age are told what a particular toy is , what bird or animal we see , something in a book. sung the same songs etc . I may not say home language words but they are shown in books or placing something in hand or something is pointed out and they are told what its name is. Like at home parent will do the same but say it in home language not English. therefore child will recognise it as one name with me and one with parent. I really appreciate your advice x thank you x Hoping with everyones advice, support and parents input I have a case to appeal x thank you again x

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's a small world View Post
    Thank you. Sorry Im just getting frustrated and everyone seems to think that I am supporting this 'bilingual' child. I did learn a few basics but as mentioned child was quiet unsettled to begin with, but have come on so much. Since Ofsted parent has provided a few extra words for me . Child is not singled out because they are bilingual all children treated the same. Children of same age are told what a particular toy is , what bird or animal we see , something in a book. sung the same songs etc . I may not say home language words but they are shown in books or placing something in hand or something is pointed out and they are told what its name is. Like at home parent will do the same but say it in home language not English. therefore child will recognise it as one name with me and one with parent. I really appreciate your advice x thank you x Hoping with everyones advice, support and parents input I have a case to appeal x thank you again x
    ...and remember ...you know the child better than any inspector on a few hours' inspection!!

    keep doing what you are doing well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    ...and remember ...you know the child better than any inspector on a few hours' inspection!!

    keep doing what you are doing well!
    And said child slept for 2.5 hours out of the 3 hours 15 mins they were with me and that 45 mins included me feeding 4 children so literally 15-20mins play !!!! not enough time to say if im supporting a bilingual child or not only from paperwork !!!! xx thank you xx again x

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    I really feel for you Its a small world. We work so hard for our grade and for this to happen is really maddening. I hope you can sort something out
    Time Out.. The perfect time for thinking about what you're going to destroy next.

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  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's a small world View Post
    And said child slept for 2.5 hours out of the 3 hours 15 mins they were with me and that 45 mins included me feeding 4 children so literally 15-20mins play !!!! not enough time to say if im supporting a bilingual child or not only from paperwork !!!! xx thank you xx again x
    I don't know how old the child is and the fact he has taken a long rest is really nothing to worry about....little ones vary in how much they need.
    When it comes to language acquisition they are like sponges!

    I came across an article/statistics yesterday about the countries in the world where English is spoken and the 'proficiency' of the population in doing so.

    The Scandinavian countries come top with over 85% of proficiency...Latvia comes at 57%...not bad!!!

    The problem...as I personally see it...is that children go to school too early and have not mastered both languages....no child at 2 or 3 or even 4can be fluent in both languages....I was interacting with a Reception teacher whose class is over 50% bilingual and the extra resources needed are just mind boggling!!

    It took me a while to speak English properly and also understand it in writing....English is like this....spoken not the same as written...unlike my home language

    While we in EY have ...or had the time to deal with this matter in the past before the 'push to school early kicked in...now is a question of having to 'rush' language acquisition because Ofsted are coming!...and then the children get labelled behind in their tests
    How many of the inspectors are bilingual?

    what Ofsted see on the day is not necessarily enough for them to pass judgement.

    Now I am not sure where England would be in those statistics but I think that inspectors need better training in this subject.

    I hope you have support if it comes to appealing against the report!

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    Well Ofsted have said I have 10 working days following the publication of my report. It states that my report may still be published while the investigation is looked into.

    It also states alternatively I can email enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk or write to them.

    My parent has written a lovely letter saying that they wish for me to speak to their child in English and that by me not speaking home language has had no effect on childs development. They have explained that they will continue to speak home language at home and how happy they are about the care I provide for their child . They mention how I communicate with them and tell them about their child's day. That we work together and discuss all aspects of child's development . They've also commented that they feel living in England it is important for a child to learn English during everyday communication and they would like me to speak English foremost. They have concluded that they will be happy if I wish to learn the basic words if I choose.

    They have provided numerous words and phrases for me so in conclusion I am respecting the parents wishes to speak English foremost (which I feel Ofsted should take into account as two people have pointed out (first person from this forum) that if Ofsted are downgrading because we don't learn a childs language then they would not take on a bilingual child. At the same time I am learning the basics of the home language (as inspector requested) but feel that I should not have been marked down because I didn't initially as I was fulfilling parents request. Maybe make suggestions but not an action ..that's harsh, especially as I have never had a bilingual child before. Must point out inspector owned a nursery so can probably afford to bring a bilingual member of staff in or be able to afford resources that I cant.

    Thank you for all your support. Thinking of seeing how things are worded in report which should come through any day now and then make my appeal (don't like the word complaint). I will see if I can send evidence such as parents letter and the flash cards we have devised between us.

    Wish me luck I will keep you posted xx

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  22. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's a small world View Post
    Well Ofsted have said I have 10 working days following the publication of my report. It states that my report may still be published while the investigation is looked into.

    It also states alternatively I can email enquiries@ofsted.gov.uk or write to them.

    My parent has written a lovely letter saying that they wish for me to speak to their child in English and that by me not speaking home language has had no effect on childs development. They have explained that they will continue to speak home language at home and how happy they are about the care I provide for their child . They mention how I communicate with them and tell them about their child's day. That we work together and discuss all aspects of child's development . They've also commented that they feel living in England it is important for a child to learn English during everyday communication and they would like me to speak English foremost. They have concluded that they will be happy if I wish to learn the basic words if I choose.

    They have provided numerous words and phrases for me so in conclusion I am respecting the parents wishes to speak English foremost (which I feel Ofsted should take into account as two people have pointed out (first person from this forum) that if Ofsted are downgrading because we don't learn a childs language then they would not take on a bilingual child. At the same time I am learning the basics of the home language (as inspector requested) but feel that I should not have been marked down because I didn't initially as I was fulfilling parents request. Maybe make suggestions but not an action ..that's harsh, especially as I have never had a bilingual child before. Must point out inspector owned a nursery so can probably afford to bring a bilingual member of staff in or be able to afford resources that I cant.

    Thank you for all your support. Thinking of seeing how things are worded in report which should come through any day now and then make my appeal (don't like the word complaint). I will see if I can send evidence such as parents letter and the flash cards we have devised between us.

    Wish me luck I will keep you posted xx

    I wish you all the luck in the world ...but...I have one concern?

    I am not 100% sure about your report being published 'before' your concerns have been looked into?

    Please contact your association if you have one or anyone in EY team who can help you
    I will try to find out...yes you have time to appeal but also look at the Ofsted complaints procedures...sorry I don't have it in front of me or know which reference number it has.

    Unfortunately there is habit of turning an appeal into a complaint in our society...I feel for you....but stay focused and determined!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    I don't know how old the child is and the fact he has taken a long rest is really nothing to worry about....little ones vary in how much they need.
    When it comes to language acquisition they are like sponges!

    I came across an article/statistics yesterday about the countries in the world where English is spoken and the 'proficiency' of the population in doing so.

    The Scandinavian countries come top with over 85% of proficiency...Latvia comes at 57%...not bad!!!

    The problem...as I personally see it...is that children go to school too early and have not mastered both languages....no child at 2 or 3 or even 4can be fluent in both languages....I was interacting with a Reception teacher whose class is over 50% bilingual and the extra resources needed are just mind boggling!!

    It took me a while to speak English properly and also understand it in writing....English is like this....spoken not the same as written...unlike my home language

    While we in EY have ...or had the time to deal with this matter in the past before the 'push to school early kicked in...now is a question of having to 'rush' language acquisition because Ofsted are coming!...and then the children get labelled behind in their tests
    How many of the inspectors are bilingual?

    what Ofsted see on the day is not necessarily enough for them to pass judgement.

    Now I am not sure where England would be in those statistics but I think that inspectors need better training in this subject.

    I hope you have support if it comes to appealing against the report!

    Hi child is 21 months . Been with me just under 9 months and from what I can gather no English contact previously so for me to learn a lot of Latvian is a big ask Yes I did learn a couple of basics but parent wanted English so I focused on that, I don't earn lots so between parent and I we have devised flash cards and parent translated main ones. But to be honest me showing a flash card is no different to showing and telling child when playing in reality IE: Ball, doll, duck, book etc. It's not easy when Im trying to care for other children and my own family at the same time and do all the paperwork involved in childminding .I agree its crazy finding resources especially when we have to pay for them ourselves.There are so many bilingual families living in England now. Be interesting to read the article. Still don't think I should be penalised because I didn't have flash cards or know every word for every toy or resources in my house x I agree how many inspectors are bilingual ,especially as mine ran a nursery !! be also interesting to see how many other childminders have been pulled up on this area or how their inspectors marked them for their interaction with child who are bilingual. I truly believe each inspector has their own way of inspecting regardless of rules and formats they have to follow x
    Last edited by It's a small world; 06-11-2015 at 11:13 AM.

  25. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by It's a small world View Post
    Hi child is 21 months . Been with me just under 9 months and from what I can gather no English contact previously so for me to learn a lot of Latvian is a big ask Yes I did learn a couple of basics but parent wanted English so I focused on that, I don't earn lots so between parent and I we have devised flash cards and parent translated main ones. But to be honest me showing a flash card is no different to showing and telling child when playing in reality IE: Ball, doll, duck, book etc. It's not easy when Im trying to care for other children and my own family at the same time and do all the paperwork involved in childminding .I agree its crazy finding resources especially when we have to pay for them ourselves.There are so many bilingual families living in England now. Be interesting to read the article. Still don't think I should be penalised because I didn't have flash cards or know every word for every toy or resources in my house x I agree how many inspectors are bilingual ,especially as mine ran a nursery !! be also interesting to see how many other childminders have been pulled up on this area or how their inspectors marked them for their interaction with child who are bilingual. I truly believe each inspector has their own way of inspecting regardless of rules and formats they have to follow x
    I feel it is best to wait for your report then you can look at how the inspector has worded her observations and arrived at that grade
    Remember your report has to go to Ofsted QA first...they may change their view on the inspector's grade...that is why we are usually advised not to reveal the grade awarded by an inspector.

    I don't think you need to have dozens of resources to support bilinguism...neither do you need to speak so many words in their language

    The main aim of this is to stop inspectors making 'individual judgements...that is why it is of paramount importance to have looked at the descriptors and how inspectors grade us...have you looked at the grade descriptors in reference to this issue?
    Take a look but until you get your report it can be difficult...stay calm...help will be at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post

    I feel it is best to wait for your report then you can look at how the inspector has worded her observations and arrived at that grade
    Remember your report has to go to Ofsted QA first...they may change their view on the inspector's grade...that is why we are usually advised not to reveal the grade awarded by an inspector.

    I don't think you need to have dozens of resources to support bilinguism...neither do you need to speak so many words in their language

    The main aim of this is to stop inspectors making 'individual judgements...that is why it is of paramount importance to have looked at the descriptors and how inspectors grade us...have you looked at the grade descriptors in reference to this issue

    Take a look but until you get your report it can be difficult...stay calm...help will be at hand.


    ForumRunner_20151106_122831.jpg

    I personally do not feel that by me not speaking in child's home language in any way effects the support I offer in their development. Behaviour or welfare. Inspector said safeguarding was good no actions or comment made xx I feel an inspector cannot judge me on paperwork alone. Inspection was with me for 3.5 hrs child slept for all but 30-45 mins and that included feeding lunch x apart from paperwork which was in order, how can they say I do not support child's development when theyve seen learning journal etc and only witnessed me interacting with child for 15 mins?

    Thank you so much for your help and advice x it's most appreciated. Xx
    Last edited by It's a small world; 06-11-2015 at 12:38 PM.

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    sorry for a delay in replying lost my last post.

    Yes wait for your report then officially complain or question your report. I found PACEY very supportive, although they did say it's unlikely to change my grade etc etc. But I fought Ofsted and won, so glad I did. The inspector hadn't looked at all the evidence.

    If you feel you have supported this child do argue your report. It's very unfair that inspectors can get away with completing less than acceptable inspections. We're put under so much pressure and most of us work very hard to provide a good service, along side running a home and family.

    My inspections was a long 3 hours, I'm well qualified and very experienced.....all that was shattered after my inspection. My report was Outsatnding but my grade was Requires Improvement with actions. I completely disagreed with the actions and for me, that was the beginning of the end.

    I fought not only for myself but for fellow childminders, my actions were removed and grade changed to Outstanding.

    Sadly, since this episode I have decided to stop childminding because for Ofsted and the inspectors it feels like it's never going to be enough, fed up with my home looking like a nursery-the inspector wanted posters up, everything out, quiet areas, all of which I have( I have a small house) My home and garden is dedicated to childminding. Well it's enough, I'm finally putting my family first and well done Ofsted, you have lost yet another excellent childminder.

    Rant over (sorry) Please fight it if it's unjust, good luck let us know how it goes
    FF

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    Absolutely gutted. Just got my report through and it makes me look like I am not fulfilling my job properly. Mentions that I don't work with other settings: nursery. I have a form that I have completed and handed it in this week purely on the basis that said child attended another childminder who completed a transition form for nursery ( I forgot to mention this) . Majority of report keeps referring to must meet requirements of two way flow information with parents and other providers . I do not provide sufficient opportunities for younger children to develop their communication skills and explore their range of early words. Make the most of opportunities offered through other professionals to support children in their learning . Gutted isn't the word. It makes me look incompetent and I really just want to quit now. Contradicts itself. Says I don't support children who have English as a second language - yet then states Attend groups where they mix with other children from a variety of different cultures. This helps them develop social skills and learn about diversity (ok so I don't speak Latvian but child is learning about others) . My weaker knowledge of how to support a child who speaks English as an additional language has a negative impact on some of the childrens onging progress. How can she judge me and come to this conclusion when I sat and played with child for 15 mins in between making lunch, feeding said child and then the rest of inspection the child slept

    Couldn't feel any lower I am going to argue my case as the wording is not acceptable. I work with parents I send them newsletters, photos, talk to them , text them etc Sorry but I am really feeling low and angry right now..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluechair84 View Post
    sorry for a delay in replying lost my last post. Yes wait for your report then officially complain or question your report. I found PACEY very supportive, although they did say it's unlikely to change my grade etc etc. But I fought Ofsted and won, so glad I did. The inspector hadn't looked at all the evidence. If you feel you have supported this child do argue your report. It's very unfair that inspectors can get away with completing less than acceptable inspections. We're put under so much pressure and most of us work very hard to provide a good service, along side running a home and family. My inspections was a long 3 hours, I'm well qualified and very experienced.....all that was shattered after my inspection. My report was Outsatnding but my grade was Requires Improvement with actions. I completely disagreed with the actions and for me, that was the beginning of the end. I fought not only for myself but for fellow childminders, my actions were removed and grade changed to Outstanding. Sadly, since this episode I have decided to stop childminding because for Ofsted and the inspectors it feels like it's never going to be enough, fed up with my home looking like a nursery-the inspector wanted posters up, everything out, quiet areas, all of which I have( I have a small house) My home and garden is dedicated to childminding. Well it's enough, I'm finally putting my family first and well done Ofsted, you have lost yet another excellent childminder. Rant over (sorry) Please fight it if it's unjust, good luck let us know how it goes
    Oh my goodness, I find it so awful that this happens :-( You poor thing :-(
    I honestly don't get how they can grade you low and then switch to grading you outstanding? Surely that stinks of their incompetence and they should get fired?? It's ironic it is the childminder that suffers and ends up quitting and not the inspector who didn't carry out their job properly.

    What had they criticised specifically and how were you able to prove otherwise?

    X

 

 
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