I was told you cant get "outstanding" if...

[mumofone]

...It's your first inspection? Is this true does anyone know?

[Mouse]

No it's not true. There are plenty of people have got it on their first inspection.

The official line did used to be that it was 'unlikely' you'd get outstanding on your first inspection as you simply didn't have enough evidence to show how you worked. There were inspectors who turned up saying "I never give outstanding on a first inspection", but you could always challenge that. Our development officer told us that if you had an inspector who turned up and said that, or said that they didn't give outstanding to childminders, you could refuse to let them inspect you and ask for someone who hadn't prejudged you.

[sing-low]

I think that, given the increased length of time between pre-reg and first inspection, many more childminders will get an outstanding first time round.

[bunyip]

I agree with Mouse.

I got 'outstanding' on my first inspection. Mind you, if I get one on my 2nd inspection, I'll be taking a long, hard look at my practice to see what I'm doing wrong. AFAICS, it'll mean I'm spending far too little time on giving the children their right to a childhood, and too much on executing a misguided regime policy of 'school-readiness'.

I'd go so far as to say that, when I was inspected, Ofsted were excessively cautious over high grades for first-time inspections. My inspector said she'd be here 2 hours, then stayed the whole day. At the end she said she wanted to give an outstanding, but knew it would be queried and probably rejected by her manager if she did it in just the usual 2 hours. She also said she'd had to find fault and mark me down in one area as a matter of course, because she'd never have got an 'outstanding - all areas' past the quality assurance process. It's ridiculous.

I was lucky. The next CM in my village to be inspected was given 'good' and told exactly what you're saying: "we don't give outstanding on a first inspection; you can't possibly have enough experience" She protested that she'd actually re-registered after several years' experience and just a couple of years' break from CMing. Her inspector promptly came up with a different excuse, that it was too soon after the 2012 EYFS revision, so she'd not been doing it long enough to be fully compliant with the new regs. (So why inspect at all?) In fact, why not just flip a coin?

TBH the whole thing is a bad joke. I try not to bang on about my grade. The 2 main benefits I've had from it are:

1. I suspect it tends to offset some of the anti-male-CM prejudice I encounter.
2. It means I can say the inspection process is a farce without it just looking like sour grapes on my part.

I think a lot of settings tend to take an outstanding grade as proof they're great, and a low grade as proof that the inspector is rubbish, IYSWIM. Personally, I think CMs should have more regard for confidence in their own ability; and put the happiness of their mindees and clients above the fulfillment of regime policy.

[natlou82]

I was told that I was working towards outstanding but after only 6 months they can't say that my practice was embedded therefore I got a good. She really scratched around to give me something to improve on, which in the end was that I should have pictures of the babies families displayed to make them feel more secure. I look after 2 babies one of which is my nephew and tbh his family photos are everywhere! And the other family do not want to provide photos as they think it will upset their LO. I was more than happy with a good anyway :-)

[Maza]

I had a similar experience to Bunyip in my first inspection. Mrs O felt like she had to stay forever to justify giving a first timer 'Outstanding'. She said that she knew she would have to really be able to argue the case with her senior (ie someone who had never met me or seen my paperwork). She rolled her eyes as she explained that she had given someone Outstanding last week too and so would really be on their radar.

[mumofone]

What does happen if you want to contest against the grade they give you? Do you have to say to mrs of there and then or is there an official procedure you go through?

[hectors house]

I know of 2 local childminders who got Outstanding on first inspection - they had both worked previously in Nurseries so weren't new to childcare or EYFS.

[Ripeberry]

I got Outstanding on my first inspection. She only stayed 2.5 hrs and I only had ONE, then 17 month old child on my books. But the inspector was hot on paperwork and I had also done my SEF. At the time (March 2010) I was the only CM in my county to have ever been given Outstanding at their first inspection.
It's not done anything for me. Still very quiet for work in my area and I will not get the same grade again. No way! But it was nice to be able to prove them wrong

[Kiddleywinks]

I haven't got outstanding, don't want to be, and absolutely agree with Bunyip, it's because I have little faith in the system due to inspectors alleged reasons for not complying with the same inspection regime that we strive to follow.

I'm not criticising any outstanding childminders btw, I admire and recognize that your grade will have been hard earned, but for the minders that also fight for OS to be told -
QA won't let me
it's your 1st inspection
I have to find something wrong to mark you down on etc etc etc

is making a mockery of the whole grading system imo
You are either outstanding or you're not - with all of us following the same written criteria

Another reason I'm happy with not getting outstanding is the reason given - it was about planning - all my parents and particularly new ones, read my report and say so the only reason you didn't get outstanding is because of the way you did your planning - I can show them what I did do, and what I do now and just roll my eyes

[Simona]

I think there is a little confusion regarding Outstanding at 1st inspection.
In the past providers did get that grade at 1st inspection

The grading of any setting has now changed because it is Ofsted Quality Assurance who decide on the grading...hence the reason providers are told to keep the grade awarded by the inspector on the day confidential until the have confirmation QA has approved it.
The criteria has also changed as there must be evidence of teaching, Leadership and Management, outcomes and so forth....it also include use of Pupil Premium which is being questioned.
The criteria is also to be updated when there is a common inspection framework with schools when Ofsted respond to the consultation.

In a recent Nursery World article Nick Hudson announced the change from 7 months to 30 months for 1st inspection...somewhere I have also read that he said they would not award outstanding at 1st inspection...I am trying to pinpoint the article

What is not clear is whether Ofsted intends NOT to award Outstanding after 30 months given that Ofsted has changed that 'to embed good practice'...I would say 30 months is enough to do that but also there are worries that 'bad practice' can embed in that time.

Due to the emphasis on the 'childcare market' many providers work hard to get Outstanding to compete...for some it may mean little but for others it is a recognition of their hard work if the grade reflects their good practice as evidenced on the day.

[bunyip]

I think some of my clients and prospective clients are shocked when I tell them, in all honesty, I have every expectation of being downgraded next time around. In fact, I'm kinda hoping for it. I think a lot of 'good' CMs should give themselves a pat on the back for being too good to be graded outstanding , IYSWIM. I really wish they didn't do grades at all: you're either fit to be a CM or unfit. Just some of my reasons:-

• Whilst a lot of inspectors are very good, it's still the luck of the draw and anyone can get a bad one (or a good one having a bad day).
• Even the best inspectors are stuck with the crazy target-culture of their managers and the machinations of political pressure and statistics-twisting that goes on.
• It's a snapshot of your practice, not a long-term view.
• When I was inspected, their was a big emphasis on paperwork, safety, etc. That's 2nd nature to me, coming from a railway background where everything has to be risk-assessed, logged and accountable. Now it's all about teaching. I'm not a teacher, and I think children deserve better than being regimented into school to serve the economy.
• I had fewer children at the time, and didn't have Mrs B as assistant. Ofsted seem to think it's better to have one, shining 'star pupil' than to support 3 or more families who want a home-from-home for their lo whilst they have to go to work.
• I still only worked 4 days a week, so had at least some chance of booking onto training courses.

I'm afraid too many parents lack any understanding of the inspections process and just take the grade at face value. They certainly have no idea when it comes to my local 'outstanding' school. The same one that left a group of 5 year-olds to organise a football tournament and has tried to have me collect a complete stranger's sick daughter from school. Again, it's like my time on the railways. Our station regularly hit 95%+ of "performance targets". The trains rarely ran on time and most of the ticket windows were closed when needed but, hey, the ticket machines took a lot of money, we issued a lot of penalty fares and the posters were always changed on time.

If they insist on me keeping the top grade then I probably don't have room for their child. One might say children just get in the way of running an outstanding practice. I won't be able to fit in the flexible/awkward hours they need. How can I accommodate their needs or break off from 'teaching' the others to go and collect their lo from preschool? Again, you can say the needs of genuine families get in the way of running an outstanding practice. They'll also have to take time off work so I can go and do training courses: and pay higher fees so I can afford to do those courses. My inbox currently contains an invitation to spend somewhere in the region of £200 on a 'PlayWorks' seminar. If I'm honest I have to say I've yet to find a mum who'll gladly lose a day's pay whilst subsidising me to spend a day with a box of Duplo. Then they'll have to agree to their lo's opportunity to have fun and a normal childhood being replaced with a series of lessons, as I desperately try to have them 'school-ready': ie. "sit down, shut up, and don't dare hold your pencil that way." They'll also have to agree to do all the 'homework' I'll need to set for them. Childhood gets in the way of running an outstanding practice.

(Edited to avoid the' theft of offence' - I'm in a charitable mood this morning. )

[Simona]

I think some of my clients and prospective clients are shocked when I tell them, in all honesty, I have every expectation of being downgraded next time around. In fact, I'm kinda hoping for it. I think a lot of 'good' CMs should give themselves a pat on the back for being too good to be graded outstanding , IYSWIM. I really wish they didn't do grades at all: you're either fit to be a CM or unfit. Just some of my reasons:-

• Whilst a lot of inspectors are very good, it's still the luck of the draw and anyone can get a bad one (or a good one having a bad day).
• Even the best inspectors are stuck with the crazy target-culture of their managers and the machinations of political pressure and statistics-twisting that goes on.
• It's a snapshot of your practice, not a long-term view.
• When I was inspected, their was a big emphasis on paperwork, safety, etc. That's 2nd nature to me, coming from a railway background where everything has to be risk-assessed, logged and accountable. Now it's all about teaching. I'm not a teacher, and I think children deserve better than being regimented into school to serve the economy.
• I had fewer children at the time, and didn't have Mrs B as assistant. Ofsted seem to think it's better to have one, shining 'star pupil' than to support 3 or more families who want a home-from-home for their lo whilst they have to go to work.
• I still only worked 4 days a week, so had at least some chance of booking onto training courses.

I'm afraid too many parents lack any understanding of the inspections process and just take the grade at face value. They certainly have no idea when it comes to my local 'outstanding' school. The same one that left a group of 5 year-olds to organise a football tournament and has tried to have me collect a complete stranger's sick daughter from school. Again, it's like my time on the railways. Our station regularly hit 95%+ of "performance targets". The trains rarely ran on time and most of the ticket windows were closed when needed but, hey, the ticket machines took a lot of money, we issued a lot of penalty fares and the posters were always changed on time.

If they insist on me keeping the top grade then I probably don't have room for their child. One might say children just get in the way of running an outstanding practice. I won't be able to fit in the flexible/awkward hours they need. How can I accommodate their needs or break off from 'teaching' the others to go and collect their lo from preschool? Again, you can say the needs of genuine families get in the way of running an outstanding practice. They'll also have to take time off work so I can go and do training courses: and pay higher fees so I can afford to do those courses. My inbox currently contains an invitation to spend somewhere in the region of £200 on a 'PlayWorks' seminar. If I'm honest I have to say I've yet to find a mum who'll gladly lose a day's pay whilst subsidising me to spend a day with a box of Duplo. Then they'll have to agree to their lo's opportunity to have fun and a normal childhood being replaced with a series of lessons, as I desperately try to have them 'school-ready': ie. "sit down, shut up, and don't dare hold your pencil that way." They'll also have to agree to do all the 'homework' I'll need to set for them. Childhood gets in the way of running an outstanding practice.

(Edited to avoid the' theft of offence' - I'm in a charitable mood this morning. )

All very valid points which I hope you will feed to your local OBC but the OP was whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection

[bunyip]

All very valid points which I hope you will feed to your local OBC but the OP was whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection

I noticed that too.

..............and I wouldn't say my post was any more or less on/off-topic than anyone else's.

The OP said nothing about "recognition" either, but that doesn't stop it being a valid point.

[Simona]

I noticed that too.

..............and I wouldn't say my post was any more or less on/off-topic than anyone else's.

The OP said nothing about "recognition" either, but that doesn't stop it being a valid point.

They are all valid points Bunyip but for anyone who is trying to find out whether outstanding is awarded at 1st inspection they are not giving the answer...somewhere in the Ofsted factsheets the answer will be there in black and white...it's just a question of going through them and finding the statement.

[Simona]

The answer to the question of whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection is in Conducting Early Years Inspections updated October 2014
Paragraph 93 says no

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections

[JCrakers]

The proof is in the pudding as lots of childminders have received an Outstanding on their first inspection.

[Simona]

The proof is in the pudding as lots of childminders have received an Outstanding on their first inspection.

Recently or pre EYFS 2012?
If that is so then it is worth challenging the Ofsted document that says otherwise
My personal view is after 30 months it should be awarded

[JCrakers]

Recently or pre EYFS 2012?
If that is so then it is worth challenging the Ofsted document that says otherwise
My personal view is after 30 months it should be awarded

No Idea? Lol...I don't have time to read all the Ofsted waffle

[FussyElmo]

The answer to the question of whether we can get Outstanding at 1st inspection is in Conducting Early Years Inspections updated October 2014
Paragraph 93 says no

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections

It say most unlikely not no.

Especially now with the changes to the first inspection being changed from within 6 months to 30 months.

I get if a minder had been minding for 5 days and had an inspection they would find it hard to give outstanding.

Minders on the fb page have been reporting back of outstanding on first inspections