2 year old 'progress check' + 1 child + 2 cms caring for him Who does it??

[Simona]

When a child attends 2 cms or 2 settings (cm and nursery or cm and preschool) who does the 2 year old Progress check and who finally does the Summative assessment?

[The Juggler]

whoever has him the most hours or perhaps if one CM has had them from birth and knows them better even though s/he has the child for fewer hours now, I would say they were best placed to do it.

With the summative assessment - do you mean the EYFS profile? Normally that would be the reception teacher.

[Simona]

Here come the complications...and I know we will have many ideas on who should do it
At a recent meeting cms agreed ALL should equally input so it works for both cms and parents in a 3 way partnership...what we do not know is how Ofsted sees this..will they be happy with one cm doing the check or will they expect some info sharing between settings eevn though one cm will actually do all the work?

I am in that very position and would like to hear how cms interpret this before I make direct enquiries
In the NCB document: 'A know how guide The EYFS Progress check at 2' page 17 there is a clear example of this with two providers sharing info but one does the check...

Yes the Profile is at reception level but the summative assessment (the final summary) is what is required at the end of the Progress check when the child nears age 3 and has a check with the Health visitor...the input has to be from the parents and cm alike, again this is described on that document on page 13 and other examples are on page 27

[blue bear]

For my little man, I asked the pre school what they would like me to include and same with parents, to be honest they were like we'll you know best.. So now I put something together and use that as a talking point with parents and add their suggestions and comments, I do the same with pre school but it's more me handing it over and they hand write comments on it, I then draw up a final copy with everyone's comments added, I refer to them as mum Says, pre school has seen etc. this final copy is given to mum and one to pre school,obviously having gotten written permission already from parents.

Some pre schools really don't understand the working in partnership and write up their own anyway with no input from me and sometimes not from parents either.

[Mrs Scrubbit]

Help am I missing something here, I know about the 2yr progress check(have done them) but not about a final summative ass. at 3 aswell-I thought it was the progress check that was deemed to be helpful to hv's x

[The Juggler]

Here come the complications...and I know we will have many ideas on who should do it
At a recent meeting cms agreed ALL should equally input so it works for both cms and parents in a 3 way partnership...what we do not know is how Ofsted sees this..will they be happy with one cm doing the check or will they expect some info sharing between settings eevn though one cm will actually do all the work? This is what we have been told and how I interpret. One person does the check but asks other settings for their input of what child does (at home, other CM, preschool). All of the info is incorporated and one person writes it up. I have just done one with a mum and waiting to see if nursery want to input if they don't I can show that I have tried to incorporate/work with them but they did not wish to

I am in that very position and would like to hear how cms interpret this before I make direct enquiries
In the NCB document: 'A know how guide The EYFS Progress check at 2' page 17 there is a clear example of this with two providers sharing info but one does the check...

Yes the Profile is at reception level but the summative assessment (the final summary) is what is required at the end of the Progress check when the child nears age 3 and has a check with the Health visitor...the input has to be from the parents and cm alike, again this is described on that document on page 13 and other examples are on page 27 I'm not sure about the final summary. There are only 2 statutory reports, the 2 year check and the EYFS profile. The 2 year check is only done once, you can review it as child nears 3 but it can't be added to the 2 year old check - the info in that cannot be altered - my 2 year checks have been taken by one parent to the HV and the other saw her HV before. They both saw the HV as their child turned 2 and I did the 2 year check just after they turned 2 also. As far as I know there are no 3 year checks with the HV so I would see the 2 year check as the summary of progress in this age range. The final summary is surely just the summary information at the end of your report for the 2 year check?

simona was this information about the final summary also in the NCB information?

[Rick]

I personally would do one anyway, even if the child is not with me as many hours as another setting. I coincide it with a summative assessment I would have done anyway. I then provide my 2 year check to other settings and parents to get their comments and to assist them in doing the formal one which parents will take when they see the HV.
If I was doing the 2 year check I would write a summary sheet and ask for comments and/or ask other settings to do their own one and provide me with a copy to assist me doing it.
I've only done 1 but it seemed to work pretty well

[Simona]

Thank you for the replies...along what I am doing even though I will be doing all the work and yes I too will try and if I get no input I can say I have tried my best hoping Oftsed will accept it???

Juggler Yes all the info from the NCB guide plus it was confirmed by the consultant who helped the DfE write the Progress check and who briefed us in our LA and recently trained cms here.

The advice is that once we know a child coming up to 3 has a review with the HV we decide on the timing of the 'summative assessment' that is basically a summary of the Progress check built on the Formative assessment which covers our planning, observations and next steps....sp you are right Juggler.

In future HV will take the report more seriously (parents have reported HVs have no idea why they are given it now) but the plan is to get Health and Education working together...your LA will know about this as this info was provided by my LA a few months ago
I will check again next week in case anything has changed and share.

[Rick]

Thank you for the replies...along what I am doing even though I will be doing all the work and yes I too will try and if I get no input I can say I have tried my best hoping Oftsed will accept it???

Juggler Yes all the info from the NCB guide plus it was confirmed by the consultant who helped the DfE write the Progress check and who briefed us in our LA and recently trained cms here.

The advice is that once we know a child coming up to 3 has a review with the HV we decide on the timing of the 'summative assessment' that is basically a summary of the Progress check built on the Formative assessment which covers our planning, observations and next steps....sp you are right Juggler.

In future HV will take the report more seriously (parents have reported HVs have no idea why they are given it now) but the plan is to get Health and Education working together...your LA will know about this as this info was provided by my LA a few months ago
I will check again next week in case anything has changed and share.

Yes if you can show Ofsted evidence that you have tried to work with other settings that should suffice, after all you can't force anyone to do what you ask!

[Simona]

Apologies if I gave the impression I was 'asking anyone' to do anything...I was trying to put Integrated Working/Info Sharing to the test especially as I feel I will do all the work!

I was merely trying to see if there is standard way of doing things across LAs and EYFS as when it comes to Ofsted nothing ever is sufficient enough
After 5 inspections I have learnt how to deal with them but, as we all know, each inspector is rather different?

Thanks for your input

[The Juggler]

Apologies if I gave the impression I was 'asking anyone' to do anything...I was trying to put Integrated Working/Info Sharing to the test especially as I feel I will do all the work!

I was merely trying to see if there is standard way of doing things across LAs and EYFS as when it comes to Ofsted nothing ever is sufficient enough
After 5 inspections I have learnt how to deal with them but, as we all know, each inspector is rather different?

Thanks for your input

Simona, with this perspective in mind it is clear LA's are very different as ours are very clear there is one check for this process and NO others that shoudl be in any way linked to it. Follow ups yet but the first check stands as it is

[Simona]

Yes I get the message...no dreaming of anything remotely standardised, I'll just get on!! I promise!
Come to think of it we could have 152 variations of the EYFS and 152 mini Ofsted departments in the shape of LAs...seriously thanks for the replies

[The Juggler]

Yes I get the message...no dreaming of anything remotely standardised, I'll just get on!! I promise!
Come to think of it we could have 152 variations of the EYFS and 152 mini Ofsted departments in the shape of LAs...seriously thanks for the replies

lol it's bonkers isn't it. Mind you will be worse soon - there will be NO LA support and no ofsted so just x number of agencies and independent minders all with their own interpretations

[Simona]

I was looking at the consultation about the changing role of LAs
1.6 d = remove the existing duty on LAs to secure info, advice and training for childcare providers but give LAs power to offer it

If it is a duty why do not all LAs offer it regardless but do as they please and have been allowed to do so for a while?
will that include nurseries and preschools not just cms? so no one gets any form of support?
if LAs have the power to offer it how will they know what we want if they do not consult with us and keep pretending nothing is happening?
not securing information means we have to look for it ourselves? we do alreday don't we?

Their jobs are on the line and all they do is bury their heads in the sand..they are so hard to engage with...maybe they will all go and work for agencies?

[bindy]

I was told at a meeting regarding the 2 year check, It only has to be once and only one person needs to do it. It's normally the person who has the child the most. I have a 2 year old one day a week, the nursery has the child 3 days a week. Therfore the nursery do it. No need for my comments! Not complicated nor should it be.

[The Juggler]

I was looking at the consultation about the changing role of LAs
1.6 d = remove the existing duty on LAs to secure info, advice and training for childcare providers but give LAs power to offer it

If it is a duty why do not all LAs offer it regardless but do as they please and have been allowed to do so for a while?
will that include nurseries and preschools not just cms? so no one gets any form of support?
if LAs have the power to offer it how will they know what we want if they do not consult with us and keep pretending nothing is happening?
not securing information means we have to look for it ourselves? we do alreday don't we?

Their jobs are on the line and all they do is bury their heads in the sand..they are so hard to engage with...maybe they will all go and work for agencies?

from chatting with the Early Years Advice and Inspection team (which is where us CM's and our temp Development Officer now fall), this is indeed the plan. Nursery chains already have their own development officers (either local, regional or national), not sure what happens with smaller chains or independent nurseries and preschools school nurseries will support each other with outstanding schools offering leadership (like advanced skills teachers in junior/secondary schools) - so in effect - self regulation apart from the ofsted inspection every couple of years - what a scary prospect

The only role that seems to be remaining central will be local safeguarding. But as you can see the above proposals have huge safeguarding risks associated with them - and if there are no early years teams in LA's who's going to provide safeguarding monitoring. I know it used to be that social services monitored childminding but I can't see that happening again - those teams are so pushed already with their workloads.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I was told at a meeting regarding the 2 year check, It only has to be once and only one person needs to do it. It's normally the person who has the child the most. I have a 2 year old one day a week, the nursery has the child 3 days a week. Therfore the nursery do it. No need for my comments! Not complicated nor should it be.

But you should be included - you will have information on that child too, especially if you have had them from birth

A recent example is of a 3 year old who was with a childminder since 6 weeks and the nursery since Sept 12. The nursery are doing the check and wrote down that E didn't know her shapes, if they had consulted with the cm then they would know that they had to ask "show me the circle" and not "what is this" to get a response. the nursery also stated that E wouldn't lead but watch, whereas at the cm setting where she is the oldest she is the leader

An "all round" report should be given to each child and our opinions are as important as any other setting.