The future of childcare: school led nurseries

Simona · 21-10-2014, 06:35 PM

This is the govt education plan unveiled by Sam Gyimah

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...ols-in-schools

**moggy** · 21-10-2014, 06:56 PM

I just want to cry

Those poor 2 year olds, 8am-6pm in school for the next 14 years of their life.

**natlou82** · 21-10-2014, 07:28 PM

I'm not sure if I'm liking the sound of "modern Britain". This makes me feel very sad :-(

**tulip0803** · 21-10-2014, 07:30 PM

School is not the best place for 2 year olds disadvantaged or not - it is a crowd pleaser - cheap childcare in a school! He even says one size doesn't fit all but is pushing schools!

"Evidence shows that children who go to pre-school are projected to earn a staggering £27,000 more during their career than those who don’t."

Doesn't sound so staggering when you work out that from 18-67 that is £551.02 a year!

**fran90** · 21-10-2014, 07:41 PM

Im seriously considering giving up childminding and working in the childcare sector as theyre moving away from childrens best interests and I do not want to be any part of it. Children should be children they have more than enough time to work long hours as adults.

**Ripeberry** · 21-10-2014, 08:01 PM

So sad for today's parents and children. They are not allowed to even enjoy 'home life'

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 21-10-2014, 08:07 PM

no mention of the good childcare that is already working again ):

**moggy** · 21-10-2014, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Chatterbox Childcare

no mention of the good childcare that is already working again ):

yes, and no mention of CMers at all! Shocking really. Shows how much this minister values us.

**FloraDora** · 21-10-2014, 08:10 PM

He's just trying to rally the schools to organise nursery places for 2 year olds.
Having come from a school EY back ground, if schools have room to create a special 2 year old area then I think they are a good place to run nurseries. I do think schools are more professional than some private nurseries; most private nurseries near me are staffed by teenagers to save money, big turn over of staff and often very unprofessional. My nursery was supported by funding from the rest of the school which helps to be able to keep staffing quality high. It doesn't have to be 'school' like.
Of course though the best place is with a good quality childminder - in a home setting. But again, there are a lot of childminders in our area not making the grade. I attended a local group recently and was not really happy to see all the childminders sitting around the edge chatting whilst the children played on their own, only interacting when there was a crisis, carrying huge mugs of coffee across the children's play area. It was a social group for childminders rather than a positive play session for the children. At a park recently I saw childminders smoking. I pass a childminders house where you can see into the garden which is a tip ..and has been for 10 years so it isn't work in progress. If this is the way the garden is I often wonder what the rest of the setting is like. It's these sorts of activities that gives childminders a bad reputation.
There are also a lot of great childminders - they are not saying that childminders are not in the equation, there will always be a need as lots of parents want home based childcare and the new regulations mean more childminders are upskilling which helps with the new focus.
I am just about to look after a LO who is a friend who comes with funding for 2 year olds. My Lea have been encouraging me once I registered for 3&4 year old funding but I have been reluctant to take on as, having spent a career in areas of deprivation I know the 'baggage' that a lot of these children come with. School's are best placed to support as they already have staff with knowledge skills and experience to sign post and support. Parents seem to be more 'Proffesional' when dealing with matters at school than they often are , given what I have read on this forum, to childminders. So our status needs raising.
In Perth, Australia I visited huge complex's of schools that went from pre - kinder ( nursery) to 18+ With Special school type areas too, each area was equipped and built suitable for the age of child - big family atmosphere, even the doctors, health centres and dentists were on site. One stop for all - and it worked.
To sum up : I would go for a suitably organised and planned school based nursery ( not the 2 year olds in with the 3&4 year olds) over a private, profit making nursery ...but I would always advocate good quality childminders over either!

Simona · 21-10-2014, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by FloraDora

He's just trying to rally the schools to organise nursery places for 2 year olds.
Having come from a school EY back ground, if schools have room to create a special 2 year old area then I think they are a good place to run nurseries. I do think schools are more professional than some private nurseries; most private nurseries near me are staffed by teenagers to save money, big turn over of staff and often very unprofessional. My nursery was supported by funding from the rest of the school which helps to be able to keep staffing quality high. It doesn't have to be 'school' like.
Of course though the best place is with a good quality childminder - in a home setting. But again, there are a lot of childminders in our area not making the grade. I attended a local group recently and was not really happy to see all the childminders sitting around the edge chatting whilst the children played on their own, only interacting when there was a crisis, carrying huge mugs of coffee across the children's play area. It was a social group for childminders rather than a positive play session for the children. At a park recently I saw childminders smoking. I pass a childminders house where you can see into the garden which is a tip ..and has been for 10 years so it isn't work in progress. If this is the way the garden is I often wonder what the rest of the setting is like. It's these sorts of activities that gives childminders a bad reputation.
There are also a lot of great childminders - they are not saying that childminders are not in the equation, there will always be a need as lots of parents want home based childcare and the new regulations mean more childminders are upskilling which helps with the new focus.
I am just about to look after a LO who is a friend who comes with funding for 2 year olds. My Lea have been encouraging me once I registered for 3&4 year old funding but I have been reluctant to take on as, having spent a career in areas of deprivation I know the 'baggage' that a lot of these children come with. School's are best placed to support as they already have staff with knowledge skills and experience to sign post and support. Parents seem to be more 'Proffesional' when dealing with matters at school than they often are , given what I have read on this forum, to childminders. So our status needs raising.
In Perth, Australia I visited huge complex's of schools that went from pre - kinder ( nursery) to 18+ With Special school type areas too, each area was equipped and built suitable for the age of child - big family atmosphere, even the doctors, health centres and dentists were on site. One stop for all - and it worked.
To sum up : I would go for a suitably organised and planned school based nursery ( not the 2 year olds in with the 3&4 year olds) over a private, profit making nursery ...but I would always advocate good quality childminders over either!

Crikey Flora Dora...you have opened a Pandora box
I could write an essay on what you have said...where to start?

Not sure if he was rallying round the schools to open the doors for just 2 year olds...or is his vision making schools institutions? good bye modern Britain then with its British values.
Maybe he has forgotten that some schools are bursting at the seams and have no place for 5 year olds and classes of well over 30 children now.
Having announced a £25 million £££ funding yesterday ...he has come up with another £5 million today...voila...just like that while we get a pitiful funding

We have gone from having an ideologist for minister to a privately educated one who hopes disadvantaged children will earn £27,000 extra.
Most of what he said is in the EPPE ...so nothing new...same old...same old.

He did not mention cms but did flag up St Bede's Academy and now a flagship CMs agency...the EY sector is now grouped under one label: nurseries!

It will be very interesting to see what role the cms who join that agency will play in the St Bede's DfE Empire of future Tory plans for education that comprises all sorts of childcare?

Interesting times ahead and a General Election in 10 months' time

**lollipop kid** · 21-10-2014, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

This is the govt education plan unveiled by Sam Gyimah

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...ols-in-schools

I read the article twice. I noticed that the Minister was advocating a 50 hour week for the children, with 15 hours funded, but I couldn't see any suggestion from the Minister where the funding for the remaining 35 hours would come from.

Perhaps there is a hidden agenda whereby providing 15 hours of 'free education' in a school-setting will be all he feels is needed to get more parents to 'leave' the benefits system if they can show that they have secured 16 hours work per week (making the 15 hours a terrific fit)? So the parents wouldn't need to worry about how to cover the other 35 hours of costs themselves... Or perhaps I'm just a cynic!

L

Simona · 22-10-2014, 10:58 AM

Sue Cowley has written a blog with 10 starter questions for the Minister...please add yours
I have added a few

For those on Twitter you can follow Sue @Sue_Cowley...she works as volunteer in a preschool, she is a teacher and trainer

Also Sam Gyinah will be co-hosting #EYTalking in the near future which is far better at taking questions from providers than addressing Think Tanks, as he did yesterday at Policy Exchange where he is looking for his policies to be promoted and addressing us in the 3rd person!

https://suecowley.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/ask-sam/

**natlou82** · 22-10-2014, 11:35 AM

Brilliant questions which echo my own concerns particularly question 1. I'm interested to see the answers if he does actually answer them!

**FloraDora** · 22-10-2014, 01:59 PM

Good reading, and interesting questions. Thanks Simona.
Can I just follow up my previous proclamation of negativity around private sector nurseries: all the churches locally run 2 or three times a week term time care similar to Sue's - and they, in my opinion are usually brilliant - run by volunteers from all walks of life, usually led by someone with EY experience, non profit making, the volunteers in the nature of volunteers want to be there and spend their time focussed on the children's needs constantly upskilling in their keenness to be doing the right ( whatever that is ) thing. They are trusted in the neighbourhood and are backed by the church support system if needed.
It is a big sector that seems to be overlooked.

Simona · 23-10-2014, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by FloraDora

Good reading, and interesting questions. Thanks Simona.
Can I just follow up my previous proclamation of negativity around private sector nurseries: all the churches locally run 2 or three times a week term time care similar to Sue's - and they, in my opinion are usually brilliant - run by volunteers from all walks of life, usually led by someone with EY experience, non profit making, the volunteers in the nature of volunteers want to be there and spend their time focussed on the children's needs constantly upskilling in their keenness to be doing the right ( whatever that is ) thing. They are trusted in the neighbourhood and are backed by the church support system if needed.
It is a big sector that seems to be overlooked.

Not at all negative Flora Dora...reality really as there is bad practice amongst nurseries as there is with cms.

Here is some more announcements from the Chancellor about his 'creation of 50,000' more childcare places...but we need to wait until the autumn to find out how his magic wand will perform miracles

sadly though he is pushing...actually wanting ...more women back to work for the sake of the economy...how stupid are we not to realise that?
it is hard trying to be diplomatic when replying to these policies...maybe he is trying to divert attention from the NHS and back to Childcare?

George Osborne gets stay-at-home mothers back to work - Telegraph

**natlou82** · 23-10-2014, 01:29 PM

I wish they'd concentrate on helping young people get into employment instead of pushing mums who are happy to stay at home with their little ones back into the workplace. He mentions that more mothers have gone back into the workplace but fails to see that many have done this to get enough income to support their families in these difficult financial times. There are a lot of women who would prefer the option of being at home! Too many people who have no clue about the reality!!

**bunyip** · 23-10-2014, 06:51 PM

The minister can blather on all he likes about increased educational attainment, and it's all equally useless as Tony Blair's populist "Education, education, education" rant. We'll soon have 50% of school children going onto university and it hasn't created a single job. All it is doing is to create a generation of young people coming out of universities with a huge burden of debt and fighting amongst themselves to get whatever low-paid work they can in coffee shops. We have more graduates than ever and one of the highest youth unemployment rates in history.

What's really sad is that it all starts in the EY. I'm about to make myself unpopular (again) but inconvenient truths have a way of doing just that. We've collectively sold out to the whole 'EY learning' thing to the point where plain and simple, good, ol' fashioned childcare just isn't enough. We feed into the whole syndrome of stressed-out infant school children, desperate to achieve, succeed and be good enough at school.

For whatever reason, be it misplaced good intentions, vanity or whatever, childcare has become too 'learning-oriented'. We've also created our very own Frankenstein's monster. The idea of more school-based nurseries and school for 2 year-old's is nothing more than the logic extension of all this obsession with learning & development whilst overlooking things like care and childhood. We've got ourselves to a place where our primary function is to train children to be "school ready" and, it has to be said, we have as a 'profession' colluded in this awful deception.

The obvious point: if toddlers are to be made "school-ready" then why not get them ready in school?

Why on Earth did our 'profession' not see this coming?

A lot of people said similar when they objected to EYFS being forced upon them, and they were rubbished for being "negative" or "unprofessional", when all they wanted was to provide excellent care and give children a childhood without the pressure to achieve, instead of chasing status and qualifications.

A period of retrenchment might be in order, though I fear we may have gone too far.