Facebook

[SammySplodger]

Did you see the posts on another group inciting people to head over to the IC group to stir things up? Their post is still going on about it this morning.

I agree it will not go away until some people grow up & let things drop. They seem to be getting themselves so frustrated by a group that doesn't offer them what they want, when they all say they are more than happy to post in an alternative group that does allow full freedom of speech. Why would they want to be a member of a heavily censored group if they have a perfectly good alternative that suits their needs better?

I also agree that it must be confusing for new members who don't understand the ins & outs, but if admin had to spend less time sorting out childish squabbles, they'd have more time to explain the rules to the new members.

Not sure if it's one group or the other?!

Thing is, if you belong to several (I do) then if you felt upset about being kicked off FB without a valid reason (because you genuinely don't get why B D can't be mentioned) then you would mention it in another group - for support. Unfortunately there are a number of people who have been banned lately and so that's not really helping is it? I can honestly see both sides of this sad situation.

And I'm genuinely worried that I might now get banned myself for speaking up. But I am trying to explain WHY last night happened. It's not just 'bad people' it's frustration!
:-( :-( :-(

[SammySplodger]

It is this aspect that concerns me the most
I was (blissfully) unaware of the shenanigans of last night, until I saw a post on my newsfeed 'calling to arms'

As a CM that is looking for advice, business support, legislation information, and discussions regarding my business and how to make it better, I do not appreciate being 'dragged into' the disputes or being 'tarred with a brush' by virtue of the fact that I am a member of particular forums, or several FB groups.

Yup - totally with you there.
Could not believe my eyes.

[Mouse]

Not sure if it's one group or the other?!

Thing is, if you belong to several (I do) then if you felt upset about being kicked off FB without a valid reason (because you genuinely don't get why B D can't be mentioned) then you would mention it in another group - for support. Unfortunately there are a number of people who have been banned lately and so that's not really helping is it? I can honestly see both sides of this sad situation.

And I'm genuinely worried that I might now get banned myself for speaking up. But I am trying to explain WHY last night happened. It's not just 'bad people' it's frustration!
:-( :-( :-(

"Genuine". That is the key word. I think you will find that many of the people banned DO know why it can't be mentioned. Simply that fact that it's a rule of the group should be enough. It seems to me that many are out with the intention of getting banned so they can then go & give the "poor me" speech on another group.

[SammySplodger]

"Genuine". That is the key word. I think you will find that many of the people banned DO know why it can't be mentioned. Simply that fact that it's a rule of the group should be enough. It seems to me that many are out with the intention of getting banned so they can then go & give the "poor me" speech on another group.

I think that it would be helpful to review the rules and be more specific. It's a grey area ATM. If you can't mention B D and others, then it should say so.

I have only been on here and the other groups for about a year. I am alarmed by the amount of time wasted on squabbling over these issues. It does nothing to help our cause - things are bad enough with bigger government issues. I do worry about how it looks from 'outside'. As a relative newcomer I'm appalled.

[FussyElmo]

I think that it would be helpful to review the rules and be more specific. It's a grey area ATM. If you can't mention B D and others, then it should say so.

I have only been on here and the other groups for about a year. I am alarmed by the amount of time wasted on squabbling over these issues. It does nothing to help our cause - things are bad enough with bigger government issues. I do worry about how it looks from 'outside'. As a relative newcomer I'm appalled.

How do we be more specific - its impossible to list everything, company outside agency, internet organisation that we don't want links to. In fact near on impossible so it says none without prior permission.

[SammySplodger]

How do we be more specific - its impossible to list everything, company outside agency, internet organisation that we don't want links to. In fact near on impossible so it says none without prior permission.

I think the trouble is that some companies, which seem 'the same' eg: IKEA or Argos are mentioned / posted and NOT deleted, yet BD is deleted. So people are suspicious and keep questioning the rules.

[FussyElmo]

I think the trouble is that some companies, which seem 'the same' eg: IKEA or Argos are mentioned / posted and NOT deleted, yet BD is deleted. So people are suspicious and keep questioning the rules.

You don't have to pay a monthly fee for ikea/argos just the item that you want.

Like we have said before Sarah707 probably has an ebook for sale on most of the questions which are asked but at no time does she promote her work on there - imagine the uproar if she did.

[Richard]

We have had issues with one particular company who have set out to use the group as a free marketing channel. They incentivise some of their customers to post "This site is wonderful" type posts in an effort to gain free advertising when the posts aren't really genuine users. Even after warnings this continued which resulted in some members being removed and a decision was then made not to allow any mention of this particular company because of the historic abuse of the group by certain individuals very closed linked to them.

As I have said on the group, no one is forced to me a member and if anyone is unhappy with the rules then they are free to leave. There are a wide range of different groups and users have a choice of which ones they belong to.

We aim to provide a friendly, happy environment which is free from abuse and argumentative behaviour and some members have been removed because they chose to repeatedly break the rules and criticise members of the admin team who give up an awful lot of their spare time to run the group for the good of the members.

[SammySplodger]

How do we be more specific - its impossible to list everything, company outside agency, internet organisation that we don't want links to. In fact near on impossible so it says none without prior permission.

I really hate to say this - but the answer appears to be stricter application of the rules. You can't have SOME companies plugged (for completely valid and very helpful reasons) and not others (for quite specific reasons only known by the owner/s of the group and various others because they know the history of this forum). But the trouble is, if you lock down too much you cannot have a meaningful discussion. Where do you stop?

Please bear the following in mind:
I love this forum and the IC FB, I use both a lot, value them and fully appreciate all the hard work admin put in. But I feel it necessary to use various other fora precisely because I cannot see 'the full picture' and freely ask certain questions. I wanted to know about B D, so I had to ask elsewhere and (for the record) cane to the conclusion it wasn't for me.

[SammySplodger]

We have had issues with one particular company who have set out to use the group as a free marketing channel. They incentivise some of their customers to post "This site is wonderful" type posts in an effort to gain free advertising when the posts aren't really genuine users. Even after warnings this continued which resulted in some members being removed and a decision was then made not to allow any mention of this particular company because of the historic abuse of the group by certain individuals very closed linked to them.

As I have said on the group, no one is forced to me a member and if anyone is unhappy with the rules then they are free to leave. There are a wide range of different groups and users have a choice of which ones they belong to.

We aim to provide a friendly, happy environment which is free from abuse and argumentative behaviour and some members have been removed because they chose to repeatedly break the rules and criticise members of the admin team who give up an awful lot of their spare time to run the group for the good of the members.

Hello Richard

Cross posted the above :-)

No doubt there are discussions going on behind the scenes about last nights debacle. It was unpleasant reading and I am feeling very uncomfortable sitting on the fence as usual. I am trying to help - my perspective is (relatively) new.

I don't want to leave either group and have therefore chosen to stick with the 'rules' - just trying to she'd some light on why/how that thread happened last night. My concern is that it will just keep going on :-(

[SammySplodger]

You don't have to pay a monthly fee for ikea/argos just the item that you want.

Like we have said before Sarah707 probably has an ebook for sale on most of the questions which are asked but at no time does she promote her work on there - imagine the uproar if she did.

Sarah doesn't have to - I do it all the time! And, no - she doesn't pay me LOL

[scottishlass]

Crazy that already some people are starting to moan at getting 5k for a party! Some people are never happy! Oh some childminders really struggle! Eh ok give it all to them then! X

[SammySplodger]

Crazy that already some people are starting to moan at getting 5k for a party! Some people are never happy! Oh some childminders really struggle! Eh ok give it all to them then! X

Yes - says it all I think :-(

[WibbleWobble]

We have had issues with one particular company who have set out to use the group as a free marketing channel. They incentivise some of their customers to post "This site is wonderful" type posts in an effort to gain free advertising when the posts aren't really genuine users. Even after warnings this continued which resulted in some members being removed and a decision was then made not to allow any mention of this particular company because of the historic abuse of the group by certain individuals very closed linked to them.

As I have said on the group, no one is forced to me a member and if anyone is unhappy with the rules then they are free to leave. There are a wide range of different groups and users have a choice of which ones they belong to.

We aim to provide a friendly, happy environment which is free from abuse and argumentative behaviour and some members have been removed because they chose to repeatedly break the rules and criticise members of the admin team who give up an awful lot of their spare time to run the group for the good of the members.

i bet you wished you hadnt taken us all on eh? i can imagine its like having 1000s of wives(or husbands) or teenage daughters (or sons). You cant please everyone all the time and you feel stuck like piggy in the middle. Well i will sit next to you and give out the popcorn

wibble x

[Kiddleywinks]

As the saying goes - you can only please some people some of the time

[VeggieSausage]

I have left some other facebook childminding groups due to terrible things people say and the main one I am now a member of is the Independent Childminders one which I like, I like the advice, great tips from everyone including the amazing Sarah707 and everyone's photos, sharing documents etc.....but the forum is my favourite place to hang out

PS WibbleWobble if you are doing popcorn please could I have a glass of vino with it please? x thanks mwah

[Simona]

I have left some other facebook childminding groups due to terrible things people say and the main one I am now a member of is the Independent Childminders one which I like, I like the advice, great tips from everyone including the amazing Sarah707 and everyone's photos, sharing documents etc.....but the forum is my favourite place to hang out

PS WibbleWobble if you are doing popcorn please could I have a glass of vino with it please? x thanks mwah

For those on FB and taking part in this discussion it may be very difficult to understand what is coming through as the main message to those who are not on FB?
we have gone from advertising, to talking about single groups, leaving this group and not the other, selling goods or otherwise, going somewhere else, money, trolls, trouble makers, those we can mention and those we cannot, people with grudges, aggressive and abusive people, rules and updating them etc etc?

I should say we need an urgent review of the rules...this is totally unacceptable and very off putting.

I did worry when the forum FB page was first launched whether it would take cms away rather than discuss our future openly in this forum...
we were reassured it would not happen...
it has happened as FB has an attraction that cannot be compared to an open forum....it also has the downfall of being nasty
Many organisations refuse to be on FB simply because of the very problems highlighted here...

what has been very clear is the pettiness and I wonder how this can help 'Independent childminders' who wish to be represented by the Forum FB page?

Veggiesausage.....you say you like the IC FB page for the advice given there...is that missing in this forum?
and I wonder if we have lost the moderators to FB now because they cannot keep up with FB and the forum at the same time?
I would guess it would be totally impossible to be everywhere and FB needs to be policed at all times? and giving the time for free??

So the forum cms are the losers? yes ....in my view!

[FussyElmo]

Veggiesausage.....you say you like the IC FB page for the advice given there...is that missing in this forum?
and I wonder if we have lost the moderators to FB now because they cannot keep up with FB and the forum at the same time?
I would guess it would be totally impossible to be everywhere and FB needs to be policed at all times? and giving the time for free??

So the forum cms are the losers? yes ....in my view!

Simona please at no point do any of the moderators spend more time on the fb than the forum. In fact some of the moderators from here are not admin over there.

At no point do the forum cms ever lose out.

But we also have to accept the fact there are cms out there who do not use the forum and prefer fb. We are reaching out to all cms

[Mouse]

I think people who don't use Facebook don't really understand it. It probably isn't anywhere near as evil as they imagine! I bet for every 100 posts on the forum group, 98 are positive and only 2 are negative. As with many walks of life, it's only the negative that tends to be reported. You often hear bad things about FB, but how often do you hear about all the wonderful things it does? No one is going to come on here and say "the forum FB group was fab today. I'm definitely stopping there", but you do get the posts saying "I'm leaving the forum FB group because one thread got out of hand".

I use facebook a lot...and I use the forum a lot. I use the forum more for posting as I like to maintain my anonymity, but I do enjoy reading the the FB group. There are lots of childminders who are on the FB group, but not on the forum. I certainly don't think the FB group is taking over from the forum. It's a growing, fast moving group, but nowhere near as big as the forum. It's not an alternative, just an addition for those who want to use it. People who only use the forum aren't missing out on anything major as the most important posts tend to be here as well.

[Simona]

I think people who don't use Facebook don't really understand it. It probably isn't anywhere near as evil as they imagine! I bet for every 100 posts on the forum group, 98 are positive and only 2 are negative. As with many walks of life, it's only the negative that tends to be reported. You often hear bad things about FB, but how often do you hear about all the wonderful things it does? No one is going to come on here and say "the forum FB group was fab today. I'm definitely stopping there", but you do get the posts saying "I'm leaving the forum FB group because one thread got out of hand".

I use facebook a lot...and I use the forum a lot. I use the forum more for posting as I like to maintain my anonymity, but I do enjoy reading the the FB group. There are lots of childminders who are on the FB group, but not on the forum. I certainly don't think the FB group is taking over from the forum. It's a growing, fast moving group, but nowhere near as big as the forum. It's not an alternative, just an addition for those who want to use it. People who only use the forum aren't missing out on anything major as the most important posts tend to be here as well.

I agree Mouse...those like me not on FB do not know the rules...I put my hand up!
but are we actually talking about 2 negative posts against 98 positive?
I fear not and we can only judge from the experiences of those who have posted here and seem very upset that something unpleasant is going on.

I get the feelings we are getting told this happens everywhere so we should put up with it?

A difference in opinion is, of course, to be welcome and allows for freedom of speech and lively debates...our MPs being the very role models we have in the House of Commons but look at the Speaker who stands up and stops the nonsense and demands an apology from those who upset others.

Maybe it would have been better not to have posted the thread, which many have read with shock and disbelief

I truly believe the Forum has to listen to both sides and balance the argument...this is 'constructive criticism' coming their way and one to be reflected on!