Membership & insurance options - independent childminders

[Simona]

Sorry Rickysmiths I slightly disagree...we ALL have a voice and each of us has to reach the cms, LAs and parents in our area

it is the common effort that will succeed because the aim is the same: stop cms joining the agencies until they know more and that is what they want to do, also talk to our LAs and hopefully overturn the agencies all together in the end

For this ALL the representing associations need to get together and form a plan which we can support by providing them with info as they can influence the policy makers and govt

We as individuals can approach our LAs...
What we need now is to get more cms on board...some have stood back because others do the work and info sharing for them...we need to wake them up and get them to join...however small their effort or using whichever method they want

[rickysmiths]

Thanks Sarah for the insurance info- I recently joined mm but only because I didn't get on with pacey but i never checked what I was covered for so this post has made me think I had better call them tomorro lol

May I just ask in what way you 'didn't get on' with Pacey because I am really interested? Because you make it sound as if you have joined MM and MM is purely an Insurance Broker who finds the best deal on Insurance and has no interest in Childminders except as customers and the income they produce for them. They only produce paperwork (which is more expensive than pacey) and access to magazines etc to sweeten customers to buy their insurance. They are not an organisation that represents childminder's core interests.

I have been a member of NCMA and now Pacey since I registered as a childminder in 1994, I have always had my PL insurance with them and I choose to buy their paperwork.

As a newly registered childminder way back when I really looked forward to getting my magazine and the information in it, it was good to know there were like minded people representing us when it mattered. In the nearly 20 years since things have changed beyond recognition. As childminders the job we do and the way we work is no where near as isolating, we have access to Forums like this one to come and as for advise, share upsets and the work we do and the ideas we all have. We have Face Book. There are now alternative membership organisations.

I have always stayed with pacey for the work a support they give childminding as a whole. Ok I haven't agreed with all they have done or not done over the years but I would be surprised if I had! Partly my disagreements have changed things, I have commented on the shortfalls of paperwork as other member have and it has been changed and still is changed to meet our legal requirements and and our working needs.

I have attended Regional Forum meetings where my view alone with all the other members was taken into account when making the bigger choices via Head Office, again I haven't always agreed with outcomes but I am only one member of a large 'club' so my view isn't always going to be adopted but it is listened to. I have attended Conferences in the past and now they have pacey local etc for members to ask questions and discuss issues with pacey and each other.

The Legal Line hasn't always been perfect but again they listened to the members and it has been changed twice in the last 5 years to try and greatly improve the service offered and meet the members needs.

As far as representing us as childminder's. They do and are doing this in spadefuls all the time. They may not be high profile or shout from the hill tops about what they are doing all the time but none the less they are doing it. In fact they took part in a Commons Committee meeting last Wed morning with organisations like NSPCC talking about Agencies among other issues. How many members would have known that I wonder?

[FussyElmo]

Well said Simona.

Of course we can change things Fussy. That is why Bills have a reading in the House of Lords. It is not just to rubber stamp what the Commons have agreed to it is to monitor and to make a judgement as well. Just because Agencies is a small part of the Bill does not mean that that part can not be questioned and sent back to the Commons for further debat and change.

I find the complacent view very sad. It is as if you have accepted Agencies will happen and there is nothing you can do about it. That is so WRONG.

We have got a chance to get things changed if we fight in the right place and it saddens me that this Forum although it fought openly for the Ratios which didn't really impact Childminders. It is not appearing to fight so hard and openly to get Agencies stopped.

We have so got to get information out as 'a single voice' to our parents, family and friends. Especially parents because they need to realise that their choice in childcare is going to be reduced and in reality the cost will likely go up and as far as Agencies is concerned I am sure the quality will go down. Why would you improve your resources and step out of the box and incur costs taking children out and about if you can't claim your expenses back?

I think we have very short memories because a few years ago the law changed regarding the Self Employed being given work regularly and by the same Company or Organisation. HMRC said that if a person continually worked for the same company or organisation that they were not actively seeking contracts elsewhere then they were effectively Employed by that Company and they were NOT Self Employed so therefore that Company or organisation should Employ that person and then they would be protected and receive Employed persons benefits.

Now, if the proposed Agencies do what has been suggested and don't allow us as individuals to receive the 2-4 year funding and parents pay their fees to them and then the Agencies pass the money on to us, we will in the eyes of HMRC be EMPLOYED. If thei is the case we will no longer complete a Self Employed Tax Return and will mo longer be able to off set the Expenses we incur in doing our job. So no buying of new resources, no buying of basic equipment, no book, no craft materials, no food, no heating, light, water insurances, no car mileage or allowances and so it goes on. Whatever anyone says this scenario is a reality and it is this that scares me half to death because it is this aspect that Mrs Truss has very clearly NOT thought through. It is exactly these concerns, real concerns for the core of our business and the direct impact it will have on the children in our care that we need to SHOUT to the Lords and our parents about between now and October. If we do we have the same chance as we did in defeating the Ratios in defeating Agencies if we fight hard.

Im not complacent maybe a realist. If it does get set back to the Commons will they not just send it back saying agencies are not compulsory so theres no need to amend anything.

I didn't say I was for them - though I could see why it would be attractive to people

[rickysmiths]

Im not complacent maybe a realist. If it does get set back to the Commons will they not just send it back saying agencies are not compulsory so theres no need to amend anything.

I didn't say I was for them - though I could see why it would be attractive to people

No they could send it back asking for the idea of Agencies to be taken out of the bill. That is why the House of Lords get to ammend Bills and make recommendations. This is why we must make our voices heard because just as we got the Ratios so they have not been changed and nor are they an option we can get Agencies ousted if we all act as ' a single voice'.

[FussyElmo]

No they could send it back asking for the idea of Agencies to be taken out of the bill. That is why the House of Lords get to ammend Bills and make recommendations. This is why we must make our voices heard because just as we got the Ratios so they have not been changed and nor are they an option we can get Agencies ousted if we all act as ' a single voice'.

But why would they do that if its not compulsory to join?

How do we know that all cms don't want agencies just because the more vocal are against it does mean that everyone does?

What about the asinglevoice should be the agencies coming in - take away Ofsted etc etc.

If my network was to become a agency I respect the ladies who run it why don't let them the stress of Ofsted, hmrc etc

[rickysmiths]

The research that has been done shows that more childminders seem to be against them than are for them.

There is no evidence that it will reduce our paperwork or inspections. Just because we may no longer be registered directly with Ofsted doesn't mean we won't be inspected!! In fact it has been suggested that our Agency will be inspecting us more often than Ofsted did!

Not all of us by any means have Networks now or indeed where I am there have never been Networks and I seem to remember that even where they are many people do actually have problems with them.

They will be a thing of the past come Sept if this bill goes through and cms will be able to have them but there will be no rules as to who can join them if they do stay they will be open to all.

I don't care what anyone says I dread the thought of a small Agency because if your face doesn't fit then you may never get any work!

With all their faults at least OFSTED is neutral and doesn't know me. It helped many cms when OFSTED took over because may LAs were not good and many reg officers did not like some cms and this caused many problems. Having smaller local Agencies creates a problem. I worked for Agencies for catering 30 years ago and there were ones where if your face didn't fit you just never got any work but at least you could register with as many as you wanted to. With these proposed cm Agencies you will be stuck with one and tough.

[Kiddleywinks]

The House of Lords can ask for amendements or changes in any Bill which means it will have to go back to the House of Commons for further debate...the Lords can delay a Bill in that way, they rae also informed by the Party they represent!
Lord Storey is Lib Dem so Clegg has to do a bit more homework and info sharing!

I will be finding out this week which ones we need to write to.....each party has one representing 'education'.
Lord Storey, I am sorry to say, despite being an ex Head teacher or such like was not aware cms get inspected by Ofsted? and that is the very reason we are against agencies: loss of registration and inspections?
Ofsted has been around for a while?

There is a lot in that Bill but each section will get a thorough looking into but we need those blessed Lords to be aware of current practice!!!!!!!!!! including cms inspections!

And the LAs will also be able to turn around and say: we are supporting cms by setting up agencies!! NO WAY!

The Lords connected to Education and the bill, I believe, are:
Benjamin, Baroness Liberal Democrat
Blencathra, Lord Conservative
Bridgeman, Viscount Conservative
Hannay of Chiswick, Lord Crossbench
Judd, Lord Labour
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, Lord Non-affiliated
Morris of Handsworth, Lord Labour
Prashar, Baroness Crossbench
Sharkey, Lord Liberal Democrat
Stair, Earl Crossbench
Tomlinson, Lord Labour
Wasserman, Lord Conservative

There is a list of all the lords and contact details available here:
Members of the House of Lords - UK Parliament

[FussyElmo]

100 childminders responded to the UKCMA call for views. Out of 40,000+ childminders its hardly screaming that we are against agencies.


Who knows what agencies will be like until they are trialled they nay be rubbish they may be just what the sector needs only time will tell

I know by comments that childminders didn't like it when Ofsted took over and many long to go back to those days perhaps that's what they are hoping for in agencies

[Mouse]

As unpopular as I will be by saying it, I can't honestly say that I will never join an agency.

My initial thought on agencies was that they would be seen as money making business opportunities by people who really didn't know anything about childminders and how they work. I couldn't have imagined myself as part of that.

But talk of LAs becoming agencies doesn't fill me with as much dread. I have very good experiences of working with our LA. They are already charging for training, they already visit me as part of the network, they already offer support and arrange peer support, they already advertise vacancies. How much different would they be as an agency? The answer is, no one knows.
I am interested to see how they work out before making my decision. If we don't let the agency trials go ahead, how are we going to know whether or not they are any good? As someone said before, just because many childminders are against agencies, it doesn't mean all childminders are against them. I think many are too afraid to say it might be something that interests them for fear of backlash.

I have been a childminder for a long time. I have built up a thriving business and I am successful in what I do. But I'm getting tired. I'm not as young as I was and my own family are getting older. Maybe I'm getting to the stage in life where I'd like to hand some of the responsibility over to someone else. Perhaps it would be nice to take a step back.

I'm not making my mind up either way now. I'm waiting to see how the trials go & weigh up the pros & cons. At the moment our LA isn't taking any steps to become an agency, so I can't see me even having the choice. But I will wait & see.

[FussyElmo]

As unpopular as I will be by saying it, I can't honestly say that I will never join an agency.

My initial thought on agencies was that they would be seen as money making business opportunities by people who really didn't know anything about childminders and how they work. I couldn't have imagined myself as part of that.

But talk of LAs becoming agencies doesn't fill me with as much dread. I have very good experiences of working with our LA. They are already charging for training, they already visit me as part of the network, they already offer support and arrange peer support, they already advertise vacancies. How much different would they be as an agency? The answer is, no one knows.
I am interested to see how they work out before making my decision. If we don't let the agency trials go ahead, how are we going to know whether or not they are any good? As someone said before, just because many childminders are against agencies, it doesn't mean all childminders are against them. I think many are too afraid to say it might be something that interests them for fear of backlash.

I have been a childminder for a long time. I have built up a thriving business and I am successful in what I do. But I'm getting tired. I'm not as young as I was and my own family are getting older. Maybe I'm getting to the stage in life where I'd like to hand some of the responsibility over to someone else. Perhaps it would be nice to take a step back.

I'm not making my mind up either way now. I'm waiting to see how the trials go & weigh up the pros & cons. At the moment our LA isn't taking any steps to become an agency, so I can't see me even having the choice. But I will wait & see.

That shouldn't make you unpopular just because you may have a different opinion to someone else that what makes us all unique

And for this reason the forum took the decision that all childminders pro or against the agencies would be supported here. So no mass protest against them. Its entirely up to the individual childminder.

[rickysmiths]

100 childminders responded to the UKCMA call for views. Out of 40,000+ childminders its hardly screaming that we are against agencies.


Who knows what agencies will be like until they are trialled they nay be rubbish they may be just what the sector needs only time will tell

know by comments that childminders didn't like it when Ofsted took over and many long to go back to those days perhaps that's what they are hoping for in agencieIs

They are in for a rude shock I fear. Foe a start we didn't have to pay to be inspected by Social Services!! I paid £10 a year for my insurance via my LA then. I was lucky because I got on very well with my Registration Officer, I still am in contact with her now via a mutual friend. Equally i know many who suffered in that old regime, didn't get on with their reg officer and there was no way out, no alternative, you were stuck with what you got and this is what I strongly suggest Agencies will be like and they will be charging £800 to £1000 pa to boot. If you look forward to that you are more than welcome, it puts the fear of God into me and I will do anything to stop them coming into being.

So what you are really saying Fussy is this Forum is supporting Agencies because they are not actively campaigning against them they way they did about Ratios?

Be very aware though that nowhere is actually trialing Agencies they are ONLY doing Trials on different aspects of what they think Agencies will be doing NO ONE is running a trial on what a real fully operational Agency will be like so even after these 'trials' we won't really have much more of an idea than we do now of how the Agencies will actally run and that Fussy is what is so scary.

[Mouse]

And for this reason the forum took the decision that all childminders pro or against the agencies would be supported here. So no mass protest against them. Its entirely up to the individual childminder.

Exactly!

I'm not saying I will join one, but neither can I say I never will. I'm sitting on the fence with one foot on the ground on the side of independence & one foot just peeking over the top towards a LA agency. I'll tell you what...it's blooming uncomfortable

[Kiddleywinks]

Exactly!

I'm not saying I will join one, but neither can I say I never will. I'm sitting on the fence with one foot on the ground on the side of independence & one foot just peeking over the top towards a LA agency. I'll tell you what...it's blooming uncomfortable

Don't cough or sneeze - you'll do ya self an injury

[FussyElmo]

[/COLOR]


They are in for a rude shock I fear. Foe a start we didn't have to pay to be inspected by Social Services!! I paid £10 a year for my insurance via my LA then. I was lucky because I got on very well with my Registration Officer, I still am in contact with her now via a mutual friend. Equally i know many who suffered in that old regime, didn't get on with their reg officer and there was no way out, no alternative, you were stuck with what you got and this is what I strongly suggest Agencies will be like and they will be charging £800 to £1000 pa to boot. If you look forward to that you are more than welcome, it puts the fear of God into me and I will do anything to stop them coming into being.

So what you are really saying Fussy is this Forum is supporting Agencies because they are not actively campaigning against them they way they did about Ratios?

Be very aware though that nowhere is actually trialing Agencies they are ONLY doing Trials on different aspects of what they think Agencies will be doing NO ONE is running a trial on what a real fully operational Agency will be like so even after these 'trials' we won't really have much more of an idea than we do now of how the Agencies will actally run and that Fussy is what is so scary.

Go on then Ricky explain to me where from my comment

"And for this reason the forum took the decision that all childminders pro or against the agencies would be supported here. So no mass protest against them. Its entirely up to the individual childminder."

You have taken that the forum is supporting agencies?

As it clearly states we support all childminders whether they join a agency or not as a childminding forum should.

Why if the forum has it set up a fb page independent childminders and has a website set up to as well Independent Childminders - Supporting each other if we were supporting agencies.

BUT it should support all childminders

[Simona]

My understanding is that this forum supports independent cms as well as agency ones if the latter choose to join

It seems to me a bit premature to talk about joining now...let the pilots go through, see what happens from them and then decide for yourself if you want to join or remain independent
There will also be a consultation for us to unite as a sector and have a say

Rickysmiths...I feel you are putting pressure on cms to speak with a single voice..as I have said we are...we all have a voice and all are doing something in our own way

The ratios issue was won because we all united by saying we did not want them and signed various petitions while representations were made by the appropriate bodies on our behalf to policy makers...the result is a resounding victory for all

I would be extremely concerned if cms who do not join what you are suggesting are 'demeaned' and told they are not fighting agencies...that would be disrespectful to those who are working hard to be heard

[Simona]

Kiddleywinks...2 more Lords to add to the list
Baroness Hughes of Stretford (previously Labour Minister for Children) and Lord Listowel

I asked PLA CEO today who we should write to and he gave me those 2 names

I will be able to give you more on Thursday after my next meeting

[sarah707]

[/COLOR]

So what you are really saying Fussy is this Forum is supporting Agencies because they are not actively campaigning against them they way they did about Ratios?

I called you 'mischievous' yesterday because I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on this issue. Having read your posts today I think you are being deliberately provoking and very insulting to our Forum members, the moderators, the Forum owner and me personally by making this comment.

The Forum is very much against agencies. Just because it chooses to support all its members in proactive ways that are different from what you believe is right, does not mean we are wrong!

Have you forgotten our document http://www.childmindinghelp.co.uk/Resources/mgc.pdf Contributed to by forum members - printed and bound by the Forum and sent to Govt?

Have you forgotten the ways in which we are supporting our members who wish to stay independent?

I will not be bullied by you or anyone else into signing something or joining something or being part of something so unprofessional that this sort of behaviour is condoned and encouraged.

You have a choice - we all have a choice - thank goodness for that freedom of choice so we can all do what we feel is right.

This thread was started to give childminders - all childminders - an overview of the various insurance and support organisations available. You have chosen to hijack it to promote your own agenda. Shabby Ricky, very shabby

This is not the post of a moderator who has to sit on the fence and be fair and impartial - it is a personal reply. I am very disappointed

[Simona]

What does 'not actively campaigning' against agencies actually mean??

We are very proactive asking each cm to do what is in her power to do...however small!

all of a sudden in the last 5 days this forum has been accused of not fighting agencies while before we were united in this aim?...what has changed Rickysmiths?

from where I am sitting I have seen no change of direction in here allowing each cm to choose their course of action...sit on the fence while observing the pilots or continue to shout against any form of agency and be supported either way

Can we now get on with the job in hand and stop this very unhelpful exchange...we are getting tired of these attacks