NCMA / Deposit Concerns

[Minstrel]

I think this has tipped me over the edge and made me re-think my insurance. It's up for renewal while i'm on materity leave so will be changing then!

[Tups]

I had the same thing happen to me, after keeping a place open for a parent she decided not to go back to work, so i told her i had turned a parent away so i keep the deposit and i did

[onceinabluemoon]

I'm beginning to think NCMA stands for "No Childminder Matters Actually"! So glad I couldn't afford NCMA when I started and went with MM!

Seriously though, really sad to hear you've been through this, must have been a ruddy nightmare. FWIW I would have done what you did just to have gotten rid of them

Hugs xx

[ORKSIE]

So glad I couldn't afford NCMA when I started and went with MM!

Same here

[Pipsqueak]

I'm beginning to think NCMA stands for "No Childminder Matters Actually"! Hugs xx

I think that NCMA have gone so far up their own backsides that they have forgotten what they actually should be doing.
I also think NCMA are so damned petrified of getting themselves a bad name or being sued that they should be renamed PC world - they are so PC crazy

[wendywu]

Right so if their contracts are illegal because they say he wrong thing with regards to deopsits, then that means that if a parent does not pay we can stop having the child at once. We cannot be sued for breach of contract if the contract is worthless.

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started. Same difference

I suggest that the NCMA sort out a contract that does allow us to keep a deposit.

And yes Pip i think we should do a petition to the NCMA in complaint. I for one will add my name and Ofsted no to it.

[aly]

Right so if their contracts are illegal because they say he wrong thing with regards to deopsits, then that means that if a parent does not pay we can stop having the child at once. We cannot be sued for breach of contract if the contract is worthless.

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started. Same difference

I suggest that the NCMA sort out a contract that does allow us to keep a deposit.

And yes Pip i think we should do a petition to the NCMA in complaint. I for one will add my name and Ofsted no to it.

exactly, but they will probably contratict themselves about tht too!

[dawn37]

Just caught up from earlier, got to say Pip you've done brilliantly to last out as long as you did, I would've ended up just refunding before you did
I can't believe NCMA contracts are worthless, as a newly registered childminder I'm finding all this very worrying in case I do get into any difficult situations, its not good if they arn't there to back you up

She had better leave you alone now, the mad The police are unbelievable too, I've been very lucky in that my rare experience with the police have been a helpful experience, but I feel so sorry & at the same time furious for you, so sending you another big hug & try (I know I'd stew on it for months ) to put it behind you, I always find a few drinks help!
Love Dawn xx

[breezy]

lots of love and hugs xxxxxxxx

[Heaven Scent]

I use to sell cars and if someone had paid a deposit, but then changed their mind, we would give back deposit less any expenses we incurred. so if you turned down other parents you would be entitled to keep deposit.

So wish I'd gone to your garage in 2000 when we lost our deposit cause we changed our mind about a car the morning after we paid the deposit - we changed our minds so we lost the deposit n we accepted it - even though the dealer didn't actually have the car in stock they were going to buy it in from another dealer!!!!!!!!!!!

We also lost a deposit we put down on a new stock house - we backed out in favour of a better new house that we were buying off plan - again we changed our minds - so it was our loss!!!!!

The sums of money we lost were way in excess of the small fry figure involved in a childminding deposit.

[The Juggler]

Right so if their contracts are illegal because they say he wrong thing with regards to deopsits, then that means that if a parent does not pay we can stop having the child at once. We cannot be sued for breach of contract if the contract is worthless.

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started. Same difference

I suggest that the NCMA sort out a contract that does allow us to keep a deposit.

And yes Pip i think we should do a petition to the NCMA in complaint. I for one will add my name and Ofsted no to it.

me too Pip. an official petition from all us forum members might make them sit up and think. I reallly sympathise hon. In your situation and with the useless advice and legal backing I think i would've done the same as you and refunded.

have a large stiif drink honey.x

[Pipsqueak]

Perhaps they would also like to explain how holiday companies get away with keeping the deposit for a cancelled holiday, when the holiday has not yet started. Same difference

thumbsup:

do you know what Wendy - this is the exact question I posed to them - they basically said it wasn't comparable as it is a service we are offering - which is different to the contract the holiday companies offer.
yet in the next breath the bloke was telling me that contract law is contract law.

i have suggested very strongly to some head honcho at NCMA that NCMA better wake up quickly and smell the roses otherwise they are going to have very few members - they need to sort out the contradictions that they keep giving (they are risking sounding like Ofsted!!!), they need to sort out their priorities - ie us the members, they need to hear what us everyday minders are saying instead of being up their own bums.

I am all for a petition but would like to ok it with Pauline as I don't know if she would be happy for it be associated with the forum - as the forum is 'neutral' iyswim. I couldn't write anything up or do disucssion as I am not quick enough of the mark but I am more than happy to instigate if someone is willing to scribe!!!

As for the silly woman leaving me alone - I have had one last text from her - which i have now ignored - telling me that I am a rip-off merchant and I don't give a stuff about the kids and that makes me a liar as I said I cared about children!!!

Stupid stupid woman. if she texts me any more I will tell her to stop otherwise I will pursue harrassment charges.

I am very determined to slam NCMA for this - and will let rip in no uncertain terms. I am going to tell them I want compensating for there shocking mis-information and misleading info on their own website which is contradictory and wrong to what their own legal team is telling me. I want compensating because they should have told me that the contracts I was using were not that explanatory and has caused me to lose money and I want my years sub refunded.

[Pipsqueak]

can i suggest to everyone -
TELL NCMA why you are unhappy with them:


NCMA Statement: http://www.*************/about_ncma/co...omplaints.aspx

FEEDBACK POLICY STATEMENT

NCMA’s core purpose is to promote quality home-based childcare for the benefit of children, families and communities. We support and encourage our members to work towards the NCMA Quality Standards and develop professional childcare practices.

We aim to provide a high quality, efficient service to all our stakeholders. We welcome feedback and use it to improve our services, and the way those services are provided.

Scope of the policy
The policy covers feedback regarding the quality of services, how NCMA services are provided, and issues relating to membership.

The policy does not cover contract disputes or employment queries. For support and advice on these, or any childcare issues, please ring the Information Line on 0800 169 4486.

Child protection issues, breaches of national standards including the Early Years Foundation Stage standards for learning, development and care for children in England, or the Early Years Foundation Phase standards for children in Wales will be referred to the appropriate agency.

Standards of service
Where appropriate, NCMA will respond to all feedback within 20 working days of receipt. We will aim to answer all points raised accurately and use plain English (defined by the Plain English Campaign as “something that the intended audience can read, understand, and act upon the first time they read it”). If it is not possible to reply within 20 days we will send you an interim reply explaining the delay and advising when you can expect a full reply.

If you have made a complaint and are not happy with the way it has been dealt with, you can ask for it to be reviewed by a director or manager from another department.

With the exception of information that indicates that a child may be “at risk”, any information provided to us will be treated in confidence and will not be passed on to a third party without your permission. NCMA will keep records of all feedback for a maximum of two years.

How to contact us
Comments, compliments or suggestions can be made by telephone, email or in writing. Complaints should be made in writing. A feedback form can be downloaded from our website www.************* under “Downloads” or obtained from any member of staff, regional office or Head Office. A bi-lingual (English/ Welsh) version is also available on the website. A member of staff will be happy to help you complete the form but you should sign it yourself. Staff can also access a language helpline via Membership Services to support anyone with English as a second language.

Completed feedback forms should be sent for the attention of the Information Officer to:

FREEPOST RLYS-HCZY-HGBL
NCMA
Royal Court
81 Tweedy Road
Bromley, Kent
BR1 1TG

Tel: Switchboard - 0845 880 0044
Direct dial - 020 8290 2523
Fax - 0845 880 0043
E mail - sue.bishop@*************
Website - www.*************

[beerheaven]

Have just read this whole thread - what a nightmare for you!!

I am so shocked to read that basically the NCMA contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on. Ever since I registered I have been with NCMA and always felt a sense of security using their paperwork. Now I am very unsure!!

As for you returning the deposit, I feel with this particular parent you did the right thing. God knows what else she may have done.

Sending you hugs hun.

[Mouse]

What I don't understand is, if the old NCMA contracts are "illegal", why haven't we ever been told? Are we supposed to guess that they're no longer valid?

I have parents that have had the same contract for ages. We review it, but if everything is still the same, we just leave it. So, now I'm assuming they were legally binding when we first signed them, but now they're not?

It really doesn't make sense

[mama2three]

wow Pip , I followed the threads yesterday , but hadnt anything constructive to add. You can now feel relieved that you havent actually taken this family onto your books - you can see why the child is a diva! Trust your gut instinct , you felt wrong about this one from the start!

As for ncma , I would be demanding they recompense you for your losses , they have been worse than useless - their information and errors in contracts have caused a huge amount of distress - you should be compensated for that.

Hope youre feeling brighter today , and more positive. You are a credit to childminding - your posts and advice have been so valuable and inspiring - dont let this ****** get you down.

[Pipsqueak]

What I don't understand is, if the old NCMA contracts are "illegal", why haven't we ever been told? Are we supposed to guess that they're no longer valid?

I have parents that have had the same contract for ages. We review it, but if everything is still the same, we just leave it. So, now I'm assuming they were legally binding when we first signed them, but now they're not?

It really doesn't make sense

The old contracts aren't illegal they are still valid - according to what I have been told - its just that they were changed because the deposit section on the first section in the grey area is contradictory to the second sheet in the fees/charges section. I asked the bloke if this is why they were changed and he said possibly.
It was how I filled it out - using that documentation was potentially 'illegal'.
I am just as confused as you are because then I believe if I am using NCMA documentation that depends on how you fill it out - using the sections provided then how on earth can it be valid if its incorrect - really doesn't make sense to me. this is what I will be addrssesing with the idiots that are ncma.

So it that is the case and the contract - depending on how you fill it out, does not apply in certain circumstances
a) whats the point of that contract
b) should NCMA not have informed all its members and people using the contract that there are potential errors in the way they are filling it out. Telling their members that they care so much about that they need to update their documentation.


I believe that as self employed persons NCMA are being too prescriptive in telling us how we can and can't run our businesses. As S/E persons - who the hell are NCMA to tell us what we can and can't do - if its written onto a legally binding contract.


I do feel 'better' today and I am hugely relieved that i have had a lucky escape with this family. You are right i didn't feel right about them from the start but I was trying to think long term financially - this would have been my fees for the third year of uni.
I am full of fight - with the NCMA and they won't be getting of the hook lightly, I might even take legal advice myself as to where I stand with their catalogue of errors. I am certainly going to be no poster child for them - this is the third time (brian reminded me last night that they let me down over the parents from hell about 6 years back).

Today I am taking down the sign outside my house that says 'mug lives here - come and fleece me'.
I am asking for written clarification from NCMA today of how to fill in their stupid contracts as well.

[Daftbat]

I am completely disgusted with NCMA and feel so glad that i made the decision 2 years ago to quit them. I have however made a formal complaint on their website following Pips link and i would suggest everyone on here should do the same! Hope you are ok Pip

[dawn37]

Just had a re-check of my NCMA contracts, mine are the English/Welsh version, bearing in mind I've only had my pack just over a month, you would assume that the contracts were up to date versions...it quite clearly states if the parent decides not to take up the place then the retainer may be retained by the childminder. Unless they have changed the contracts within the last 4 weeks, they are talking absolute nonsense, very worrying if these arn't worth the paper they are written on, whats the point of having the contract at all?
Glad you feel a bit better today pip, keep strong xxx

[tulip0803]

Just reading this for the first time as I wasn't on line yesterday. Really sorry that you had to go through that. Complete pants from the legal team again then.

I had already decided that when my PLI comes up in Sept I am changing to MM & this has confirmed it.