Napping dilema

**Daftbat** · 07-08-2009, 08:09 AM

I came across this problem on another forum and wondered what everyones views were as i may well have three small children all needing naps at the same time next year.

Thanks everyone for your time with this. The reason I asked is that I'm having to change my nap arrangements with immediate effect. Basically, Ofsted came recently and were not at all happy with my sleeping arrangements. Parents always been happy but the inspector said had she have inspected me in March (where I got a good with 6 outstandings), she'd have actually given me 'Inadequate' purely due to the naps. 2 reasons for this:

1) All 4 children were sleeping upstairs (seperate rooms for 2 of them) and she really wasn't happy with more than 2 being up there as (in case of fire) I could only carry 2 at a time (it didn't matter than the other 2 are very fast at 'bumping' down the stairs). So now I need to change my set up and I'm struggling a little.

2) She's got it in her head I'm not meeting the children's individual needs because they happen to nap at the same time. If she'd have let me, I could have given past examples, shown her an old baby diary etc. My naps are like they are now but only because this works for the children now. I tried to explain it works fine, we go to group/go out/do activities here... then have lunch then naps. I have the youngest going down at 1ish and the 2 year olds go down more like 1.30pm. The parents are insisting I keep this routine and I'm ****** furious this woman has made out I don't look at their individual needs. She implied I did this for 'my convenience'.

I've been through such a lot of emotions in the last week or so that I'm in 2 minds about continue to childmind but for now, I need to decide what I'm going to do moving forward as have a lot of paperwork to do and send to them asap to satisfy them.

For now though, I have a very very tired 13 month old ds2 as I've tried getting him to nap downstairs and he's having NONE of it!!! What am I supposed to do when it's the hols and I have 3 big kids playing downstairs? It would be great if they were playing nicely in the playroom but they want to be in the lounge right now!!! And I can't FORCE them into the playroom as that wouldn't be CHILD LED would it!!! (they are still under EYFS until 31st of this month!!)

Oh, and she kept referring to nurseries and saying they wouldn't do this etc - think she's one of those who wants all childminders gone!!!

Most of the parents are FURIOUS about all this but what can I do, it's not up to them!!

**sweets** · 07-08-2009, 08:17 AM

i'm sorry but my littlies go down for a nap at the same time, i need the break! if the childminder is happy the way things are and the parents are too then i wouldn't give a fig what ofsted say, they cannot dictate our routine for us. i can understand the fire thing in a way but how likely is it going to be!!! thats like saying single parents with 4 kids shouldn't have them sleeping upstairs, it ridiculous.

**Mouse** · 07-08-2009, 08:33 AM

When I have all 3 mindees here, they all go for a sleep at the same time. It's mainly because of our nursery run/school run routine. If they don't sleep fairly soon after lunch, they don't get long enough and I'd have to wake them up to go on the school run. I'm sure that's another Ofsted no-no? Haven't they said we shouldn't wake children?
So, I couldn't win either way! But my routine suits the children, the parents and me. I'll stick with it and hope I don't ever get such a daft inspector!

As for the fire safety aspect. The cm should have risk assessed the sleeping arrangements & done a fire practice, so would be able to show Ofsted that she has thought about it & is happy with the situation. I'm sure if you were to have 3 little ones & showed RA & fire drill results, you could justify having them all upstairs.

Out of interest, do you know why Ofsted were there again if she was only inspected in March?

**Daftbat** · 07-08-2009, 08:37 AM

No idea why they were there again so soon

Pipsqueak · 07-08-2009, 08:38 AM

I used to be able to get mine to have a rest/nap time at the same time. As a group we used to sit down to have a rest - it so happened that they went to sleep.

I am sorry - but if its working for the minder and the parents are happy with it Ofsted can take a run and jump
I think she needs to challenge this in writing with back up letters from the parents. Keep it factual and professional. And stating she is not a nursery but a home based environment with a good routine that the children are comfortable with and changing it because the inspector thinks she should would be extremely detrimental. She will follow the childrens needs as they arise.

**Mickey Mouse Clubhouse** · 07-08-2009, 08:42 AM

I used to have 3 mindees who all went to sleep at the same time and I think as long as they parents are happy I cannot see what is wrong with it.

**Mouse** · 07-08-2009, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Penny Cartledge

Oh, and she kept referring to nurseries and saying they wouldn't do this etc - think she's one of those who wants all childminders gone!!!

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Unless it's changed since my children went, I thought nurseries did put them all to sleep at the same time? I can't imagine a nursery letting babies/children sleep just as & when they want.

Pipsqueak · 07-08-2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mouse

Unless it's changed since my children went, I thought nurseries did put them all to sleep at the same time? I can't imagine a nursery letting babies/children sleep just as & when they want.

some nurseries do... they just have the sleep mats out all the time and children can go and lay down/sleep when they want. (I was in one recently - the girl on the mat kept getting trodden on, fallen over, accidentally kicked

)

**cuffleygirl** · 07-08-2009, 08:54 AM

This is ridiculous it is in everyone's best interest that they have a routine that works - I haven't got any advice apart from risk assess, fire drill and then carry on as you are and if need be bend the truth a little with Ofsted.

Don't give up. Maybe Mrs Ofsted was having a bad hair day! There are so many rumours that Ofsted have to find 2 things to 'improve' and she picked this one.

I got pulled up for one set of parents not contributing the diary the rest do and I have asked and asked they just don't want to and short of standing over them and making them (how impartial is that?) Its not something I can do anything about nor can you change nap times without missing groups or having grumpy children!

**FussyElmo** · 07-08-2009, 09:19 AM

If she was inspected again so soon - she must have had a complaint made against her.

I put all my children down together and ofsted had no problem with this said it showed that I had worked in partnership with the parents to work a routine out between us.

She couldnt have ra'ed the sleeping arrangements because she would have been able to show how she would deal with the fire drill.

I dont know something is not ringing true about it. Did she make a point of at a certain putting the children down when they were doing something.

**Mouse** · 07-08-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by FussyElmo

If she was inspected again so soon - she must have had a complaint made against her.

She couldnt have ra'ed the sleeping arrangements because she would have been able to show how she would deal with the fire drill.

I did wonder if it was because of a complaint, though it could have been for a variation as she says she has 4 children.

And I agree, if she had a clear risk asessment & emergency evacuation report she could have shown how she would get all 4 children downstairs in an emergency.

**Tatjana** · 07-08-2009, 11:56 AM

If they all slept at different times how would they ever got out of the house?!

xx

**Helen79** · 07-08-2009, 01:07 PM

Mine all sleep at different times & I'm probably in the minority that thinks they should be allowed to sleep at different times if thats what routine they're in at home. It's very rare my 2 are asleep at the same time.
My ds sleeps in the afternoon, but my mindee's mum has specifically asked me not to let her ds sleep any later than lunchtime, as then he doesn't sleep well at night. I have to respect her wishes. It means I don't have any 'me' time but the parents are paying me so I have a tea break when they have a quiet 5mins.

but if parent's are happy with the times they sleep I can't see why ofsted would mind.
I ask parents to write down what time the want them to sleep so then if ofsted ask why they're all sleeping at the same time then I can show them it's at the parent's request not for my convenience.

What about cm who live in a 1st floor flat? I don't have the choice of them sleeping on a ground floor & always have stairs to consider when they're all sleeping. I have RA it & it's written in my evacuation plan.

**rickysmiths** · 07-08-2009, 01:13 PM

This is interesting. When I was inspected last year the 3 I had with me at the time, all under 3yrs had their lunch and went for their naps. Two were upstairs and the smallest downstairs in my living room. The inspector followed me upstairs and watched as I put them down and asked questions. One was in a cot and the other a buggy. She wanted to see that the one in a buggy was securely strapped in and was lying as flat as possible. She was also pleased to see the stair at the top of the stairs was closed as we went down. Though I have no idea why because neither of the children could get out of their bedrooms independently anyway!

I now have 4 under 5s everyday on my own and from Monday 5 when working with an assistant. I will have three sleeping upstairs, 2 are independent walkers the third a baby who I can carry. The 4th will be in my living room. They all sleep at the same time, this little group always have due like others to outtings and just daily routines. It works to have the 1.5-2hr nap they seem to need between 1-3. All the parents are very happy with the arrangements and are pleased that their children are following a good routine. It helps them at home.

Yes it does mean that I get a welcome break of at least an hour on a bad day. Hey I start work at 7.15am and finish at 6.30pm. I couldn't offer the parents the hours I do if I did not get any chance in the day for a sit down and a quiet coffee. No employee would be expected to work straight through without a break, an assistant would have to have a break.

It sounds as if there are some issues with this cm anyway. If it was such an issue with 4 under 5s why did she take on much older ones in the holidays if she doesn't have the room to accommodate them all?

For you Penny. I have found over the years that firstly children are creatures of habbit (why they tend to thrive with good routines) and secondly the are most often adaptable to there circumstances.

Work out which children you are happy to sleep where according to their needs and your accomodation. I use travel cots, I have 3, blow up Ready Beds, I have 2, buggies, I have numerous combinations!

and my sofas. It helps that I have a 4 bed house and am registered to use the whole house but I managed equally in a 3 bed flat for 10yrs.

When you are happy to a fire escape practice and complete your risk assessments and as long as you are comfortable and the needs of the children are met you should be fine.

A last note. All the Nurseries near me when I last checked about 6mths ago, have sleeping rooms. All the under 2s are put down to sleep at the same time and are allowed to sleep as long as they want. They are all in one room together. Onece they move into the over 2 room they are active ly discouraged from having a sleep because the over twos 'don't need one' Their words not mine.

I would like to introduce them to the 3.5yr old I have had since they were 6mths, they can still sleep for England. Yes I do wake them up, if I didn't they would never get home

Anyhow good luck Penny.

**Rubybubbles** · 07-08-2009, 01:18 PM

interesting

When I used to have 3 under 5 they all use to sleep at the same time, after lunch, it happens, it what most lo body clocks do!

Def agree with the RA but, she didn;t have one in place so..........

I am lucky now as my house is bigger, so I have travel cot for my lo (one have 1 atm) in the dinning area and it's only me, so no other children to keep calm

**Daftbat** · 07-08-2009, 01:33 PM

Thanks ladies, your views have been roughly in line with what i would do anyway. I have two travel cots at the moment and three buggies so i am sure that i will work things out for the odd occassion i am likely to have all three children together.

**The Juggler** · 07-08-2009, 01:43 PM

I can't believe that. If you let them all sleep when they wanted they would (a) miss out on morning activities probably, (b) not get enough sleep as school runs would interfere with timings and you'd have to wake them so napping in buggy all the time or (c) crash out at tea-time and you'd have very cross parents!

Yes, it does give us a break, if there's no any older ones around but that's not why. It's just good to have them in a routine - it helps the parents at home that the children have such a routine and after lunch is perfect time between morning and bedtime for their body clocks and energy to catch up. Any earlier they might not make it to bed time falling asleep at tea and any later and they might not want to go to bed!

Grrrr - what do ofsted know anyway! PS agree with comment about problems of bigger children downstairs in hols. I have had to move my sofa sleepers upstairs too and now wish I'd done that in first place.

sorry, rant over.

**singingcactus** · 07-08-2009, 02:39 PM

I have to say, that if that childminders house was on fire she ABSOLUTELY WOULD be able to get four children downstairs!
I don't know exactly how, but I do know that she would get all four children down the stairs without injuring any of them. We all know we would. If we had time to go upstairs and grab one child we would grab all four, under arms, over shoulders with our teeth!

**sweets** · 07-08-2009, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by singingcactus

I have to say, that if that childminders house was on fire she ABSOLUTELY WOULD be able to get four children downstairs!
I don't know exactly how, but I do know that she would get all four children down the stairs without injuring any of them. We all know we would. If we had time to go upstairs and grab one child we would grab all four, under arms, over shoulders with our teeth!

Totally agree!!!

you wouldn't stand there and say oh sorry ofsted says i'm not allowed to carry you all.