Term time contracts question

[mumofone]

Does anyone look after an after schooler who attends term time only but that you won't/don't do a TTO contract for? Not sure this makes sense. And what are your reasons for not doing a TTO contract?

[Dragonfly]

I have one that comes after school but is over 10 years old so just count this as an extra child and don't do a contract. I do all the other paperwork though which i do for all the children. Child records etc.

[mumofone]

Sorry what I mean is if a parent wants a TTO contract for a school aged child do you do it? So it would be based on 40 weeks a year rather than 52?

[moggy]

Sorry what I mean is if a parent wants a TTO contract for a school aged child do you do it? So it would be based on 40 weeks a year rather than 52?

I think taking any child TTO is a choice a CMer makes either because the CMer wants a quiet life in the hols, or is not worried about the lower income...
I would not do it because I want maximum income from my places and I am happy to work in the holidays.
But I know CMers who like having TTO contracts... it is just a personal/business choice.

[mumofone]

I think taking any child TTO is a choice a CMer makes either because the CMer wants a quiet life in the hols, or is not worried about the lower income... I would not do it because I want maximum income from my places and I am happy to work in the holidays. But I know CMers who like having TTO contracts... it is just a personal/business choice.

Thanks moggy this is how I feel too but parents have asked for a TTO contract and I wasn't sure how to say "no"?!

[watford wizz]

Does anyone look after an after schooler who attends term time only but that you won't/don't do a TTO contract for? Not sure this makes sense. And what are your reasons for not doing a TTO contract?

I have children who attend term time only and others who attend school holidays only, others attend full time and some ad hoc they all have full contracts and other paperwork health / permission forms etc. I don't understand why you wouldn't have a contract??

[Mouse]

If you don't do a TTO contract for them would you expect them to have a full day contract during the holidays, or would you just charge for the after school hours?

[mumofone]

I have children who attend term time only and others who attend school holidays only, others attend full time and some ad hoc they all have full contracts and other paperwork health / permission forms etc. I don't understand why you wouldn't have a contract??

Sorry it's not about whether or not I would do a contract for them - I would for any child. It's about whether I want to do term time only for the child or have them agree to all year round.

Sorry if I didn't make sense!!

[mumofone]

If you don't do a TTO contract for them would you expect them to have a full day contract during the holidays, or would you just charge for the after school hours?

Good point. Hadn't thought that far!!! What's normal?

[alex__17]

I have my schoolies tto as its nice having a break from them in hols but they often book in for full days in hols when needed which I treat as a bonus. I'm full with early years in the day which are all on all year round contracts, so the drop in income in school hols isn't too bad and is worth it for the quieter days and no school run to do

[moggy]

Sorry it's not about whether or not I would do a contract for them - I would for any child. It's about whether I want to do term time only for the child or have them agree to all year round.

Sorry if I didn't make sense!!

So, do you mean you are considering whether to: Accept no income during holidays for this family with a TTO contract... or to charge a % retainer in the holidays... or to charge full in holidays whether they use it or not?

That is just a business decision- and you can say no if it does not suit you, or ask for a 50% retainer to 'keep the place' during the holidays which they can choose to use and top up to 100% fees for the days used...

Would they EVER need days in the holidays? If not, maybe TTO and no retainer, then you can fill their holiday place with a different child for 'holiday only' care.

Whatever you do, make sure it is clear what happens for school inset days!

[Mouse]

Good point. Hadn't thought that far!!! What's normal?

Well, I wouldn't think many parents who only need after school care during the term would want to pay for full days during the holidays.
That would leave you with charging the after school rate as a retainer through the holidays. In turn that would mean you should really keep the after school hours free for that child, just in case parents decided they wanted to use them. That could prove difficult if you had an enquiry for an after school child.

What I would do is look at charging a higher rate for a TTO contract. For example, if you charged £10 a day for after school for 48 weeks a year (I take off 4 weeks for my holiday) it would be £480 for a year for one day. Look at that being paid over only 40 weeks a year (or however long a school year is) which would mean charging £12 a night. You could say to parents you will offer a TTO contract and that it would be £12 per night. That way you don't have to keep a space for them in the holidays (so could take on a holiday only contract), but won't be losing any money over the year.

[mumofone]

Well, I wouldn't think many parents who only need after school care during the term would want to pay for full days during the holidays.
That would leave you with charging the after school rate as a retainer through the holidays. In turn that would mean you should really keep the after school hours free for that child, just in case parents decided they wanted to use them. That could prove difficult if you had an enquiry for an after school child.

What I would do is look at charging a higher rate for a TTO contract. For example, if you charged £10 a day for after school for 48 weeks a year (I take off 4 weeks for my holiday) it would be £480 for a year for one day. Look at that being paid over only 40 weeks a year (or however long a school year is) which would mean charging £12 a night. You could say to parents you will offer a TTO contract and that it would be £12 per night. That way you don't have to keep a space for them in the holidays (so could take on a holiday only contract), but won't be losing any money over the year.

i think i want them to either take the space or not if that makes sense. i am happy for that space to just be the usual after shcool hours through the holidays though and not full days. I dont envisage getting any enquiries for holiday only work so like to work on a basis that a space taken is a space taken whatever they decide to use or not. does that make sense?!

[BallyH]

I have my schoolies tto as its nice having a break from them in hols but they often book in for full days in hols when needed which I treat as a bonus. I'm full with early years in the day which are all on all year round contracts, so the drop in income in school hols isn't too bad and is worth it for the quieter days and no school run to do

I do this also. However I will only agree to the 'odd' booked in day in the holidays if it fits in with what I have planned for the lo's.

[bunyip]

i think i want them to either take the space or not if that makes sense. i am happy for that space to just be the usual after shcool hours through the holidays though and not full days. I dont envisage getting any enquiries for holiday only work so like to work on a basis that a space taken is a space taken whatever they decide to use or not. does that make sense?!

It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure I understand the context.

IIUC, you're happy to pick up from school and provide care until mum can pick up in term time, and you're also happy to do exactly the same hours during the holidays, but you don't want to provide any more daytime care during the holidays. Correct?

I'm interested to know what sort of family/working pattern this could suit. I just can't see you attracting much in the way of before/after school care this way.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've never come across a family needing that pattern of care. The schoolies I've had either need no holiday care at all (parents working in education, or with family who help out in the holidays) or they need more hours in the holidays, usually amounting to full day care.

Even if both parents used up their annual leave to coincide with the school holidays, they'd still be unable to cover the full 13 weeks. Are they self-employed and able to select their own working hours, or on a flexitime arrangement?

[mumofone]

It kinda makes sense but I'm not sure I understand the context.

IIUC, you're happy to pick up from school and provide care until mum can pick up in term time, and you're also happy to do exactly the same hours during the holidays, but you don't want to provide any more daytime care during the holidays. Correct?

I'm interested to know what sort of family/working pattern this could suit. I just can't see you attracting much in the way of before/after school care this way.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've never come across a family needing that pattern of care. The schoolies I've had either need no holiday care at all (parents working in education, or with family who help out in the holidays) or they need more hours in the holidays, usually amounting to full day care.

Even if both parents used up their annual leave to coincide with the school holidays, they'd still be unable to cover the full 13 weeks. Are they self-employed and able to select their own working hours, or on a flexitime arrangement?

Nope.....

Mum wants child looked after after school. I said fine I will draw up contract based on child attending all year round for those after school hours (I am happy if child does full days in the holidays)

Mum said she only wants a TTO contract though. Mum said they "might" want to use me in holidays but probably not...

So my quandry is whether I stick to my guns and say I only do year round contracts or whether i relent and do a TTO only contract to suit Mums needs.

Make sense....?!

[FloraDora]

Bunyip, Moggy and Mouse have given good advice amongst others...there are lots of ways you can go, retainers, charging more per hour etc...
I find that if you you have a unique selling point that parents want then you can dictate your terms, however unsuitable they are for the parents. But if they can go elsewhere then you might lose them.
Your decision depends on how much you want the clientele really.

[bunyip]

Nope.....

Mum wants child looked after after school. I said fine I will draw up contract based on child attending all year round for those after school hours (I am happy if child does full days in the holidays)

Mum said she only wants a TTO contract though. Mum said they "might" want to use me in holidays but probably not...

So my quandry is whether I stick to my guns and say I only do year round contracts or whether i relent and do a TTO only contract to suit Mums needs.

Make sense....?!

You don't want to do it and you don't have to do it.

Are you asking us to talk you into it or asking us how to say "no"?

Is there more to it than that?

Remember that schoolies won't affect your EY ratios.

One of my longest-running contracts is for after-school care, TTO. In addition to this, I offer holiday care on a purely ad hoc basis, meaning I can turn down any request for holiday care that doesn't suit me. Is that something you might consider?

I can see how your proposal is the logical extension of the "I can't fill the space" argument used in a lot of CMing scenarios, but CMs generally don't apply it to schoolies. CMs generally accept that wraparound care is by its very nature a TTO deal with some sort of different arrangement during the holidays.

I know we're self-employed and don't have to cow-tow to every parent's demands, but I can't see what you're offering as very attractive to any family if they have any sort of alternative. You're asking mum to pay for 52 weeks and get 39 weeks of the service. If she signs the contract, I'd expect her to be looking to leave the moment she can find any other after-school care facility that can offer an alternative.

The question this boils down to is: do you want to make a little £extra in term-time for a school run or would you rather see mum go to another provider because she won't pay you when she's not getting the paid-for service 25% of the time? (That's a straight question based on the facts and how any client would see this - not a moral judgment.)

[mumofone]

You don't want to do it and you don't have to do it.

Are you asking us to talk you into it or asking us how to say "no"?

Is there more to it than that?

Remember that schoolies won't affect your EY ratios.

One of my longest-running contracts is for after-school care, TTO. In addition to this, I offer holiday care on a purely ad hoc basis, meaning I can turn down any request for holiday care that doesn't suit me. Is that something you might consider?

I can see how your proposal is the logical extension of the "I can't fill the space" argument used in a lot of CMing scenarios, but CMs generally don't apply it to schoolies. CMs generally accept that wraparound care is by its very nature a TTO deal with some sort of different arrangement during the holidays.

I know we're self-employed and don't have to cow-tow to every parent's demands, but I can't see what you're offering as very attractive to any family if they have any sort of alternative. You're asking mum to pay for 52 weeks and get 39 weeks of the service. If she signs the contract, I'd expect her to be looking to leave the moment she can find any other after-school care facility that can offer an alternative.

The question this boils down to is: do you want to make a little £extra in term-time for a school run or would you rather see mum go to another provider because she won't pay you when she's not getting the paid-for service 25% of the time? (That's a straight question based on the facts and how any client would see this - not a moral judgment.)

Ok, i see your point! :-)

[mumofone]

if i draw up a TTO only contract do I do away with the normal 4 weeks holiday that i usually "allow" them? cos their holidays are effectively the school holidays?