Parent not wanting to pay notice

[KatieFS]

So cross!!!

I've asked a parent if it's possible to move days around from September as will only have this little one on a Monday and have spaces on Tuesday weds and Friday. I've had a mental year working everyday and foundation degree one day a week, 2 of my own...I've got ill a few times, bad back and think I need to slow down a bit,

Anyway this family rarely pays me on time, mum and dad separated and I've helped them through it- have lo and older sibling, I've been flexible supportive helpful kind.

I mentioned this month's ago then put it in writing in May to change in September. Reminded her a few times then text again this week.

She emails me on 1st saying she will give notice - but she hasn't realised my contracts state paid notice (I'm on holidays from w/c 20 July.) she has given me 2 weeks notice. I obvs won't be able to fill this space over August as most people have already made arrangements,
It sticks in my craw a bit they are going to the most expensive corporate feel day nursery in the town, this is the family who checks each invoice and quibbles over half and hour (£2.50!!) usually late with payment and brings child to me no breakfast and still in bed clothes.

An email exchange at the moment where it turns out they are starting new setting within notice period and new setting can't change.

So cross!!!!

[smurfette]

They should still pay you even if Lo has moved on to nursery... I don't know about contract you are using does it say notice can't include holidays? I have had exactly same received notice while away on holidays! Family always said they couldn't afford five days and I did three days one week and five the next cos granny was staying to help them out and they couldn't bear granny in house every week.. And yet.. They could afford to pay nursery five days a week suddenly!! Later it materialised they had separated and nursery was more or less next door so I think they probably felt it was nearer if mum would be on her own.. But like you I bent over backwards and had minded Lo for years ., and it stings doesn't it? Hugs for you xxx hoping you find someone to fit the hours you want, you are right not to work a day for just one child when you have so much on your plate xx

[Simona]

So cross!!!

I've asked a parent if it's possible to move days around from September as will only have this little one on a Monday and have spaces on Tuesday weds and Friday. I've had a mental year working everyday and foundation degree one day a week, 2 of my own...I've got ill a few times, bad back and think I need to slow down a bit,

Anyway this family rarely pays me on time, mum and dad separated and I've helped them through it- have lo and older sibling, I've been flexible supportive helpful kind.

I mentioned this month's ago then put it in writing in May to change in September. Reminded her a few times then text again this week.

She emails me on 1st saying she will give notice - but she hasn't realised my contracts state paid notice (I'm on holidays from w/c 20 July.) she has given me 2 weeks notice. I obvs won't be able to fill this space over August as most people have already made arrangements,
It sticks in my craw a bit they are going to the most expensive corporate feel day nursery in the town, this is the family who checks each invoice and quibbles over half and hour (£2.50!!) usually late with payment and brings child to me no breakfast and still in bed clothes.

An email exchange at the moment where it turns out they are starting new setting within notice period and new setting can't change.

So cross!!!!

If you hold a deposit that can be used for the notice period.

[KatieFS]

I don't write deposit into my contracts Simona. Just 4 weeks notice. I feel this is more than fair and reasonable,
The familiar feeling that i have been used and treated unfairly. Highly unpleasant.

[natlou82]

This is an awful situation for you. I think you need to refer back to your contracts and stand firm. I get annoyed when people don't read things through properly and then just expect you to take the hit. At the end of the day if they've signed a contract stating 4 weeks that's what they should pay. It sounds like they may get a shock to the system when they start at the nursery. Good luck I hope you find a new family soon :-)

[Simona]

I don't write deposit into my contracts Simona. Just 4 weeks notice. I feel this is more than fair and reasonable,
The familiar feeling that i have been used and treated unfairly. Highly unpleasant.

Yes you have been treated unfairly....without a deposit, which acts as a deterrent to giving short notice or walking away from their contracts, parents will continue to sign contracts and ignore the terms and conditions that binds them to the agreement...which is legal.

Preschools charge a term in advance...if parents move on in the middle of that term, that is their loss...they get no refund
With the 30 hours coming in this is a very important issue...our sustainability is paramount as parents will have so much choice.
I hope you get it sorted.

[tess1981]

Reread your contract and get onto your insurance company. Send parent a polite reminder that as per contract four weeks notice is required or four weeks payment in lieu is due.... ask for a response by a certain date and if they don't reply let insurance company take over

[KatieFS]

I'm due to have the lo Monday, although I won't be raising the issue. If she would like to discuss it we can talk later. My last email was clear notice us due, she is welcome to start at new setting before notice ends but then I expect payment in lieu.
My contract States 4 weeks notice and that is what I expect. I feel personally shafted as she knows I won't be able to find work for the rest of August with 2 weeks to go (I'm away on holiday in 2 weeks). So really I'm losing 3 weeks money. I've supported her through lots of difficulties and I feel proper notice us the least she could do. She can be thoughtless at times, a bit disorganised and doesn't think things through, I suspect to put lo into day nursery was easier for her and her situation (she has separated from lo dad). I'm afraid she thinks about herself first and others second. This is no exception but I hoped human kindness might prevail given I have been so good to them.
I'll go through my insurance if necessary.

[KatieFS]

She has agreed to give full notice, still leaves bad taste

[natlou82]

I'm glad you've have got what you rightly deserve x

[Mouse]

She has agreed to give full notice, still leaves bad taste

It's a shame when it ends on a sour note - and it always seems to be because parents start quibbling over money that they owe

[miffy]

She has agreed to give full notice, still leaves bad taste

That's good - maybe she acted hastily and has since thought about it and decided to do the "right thing"

Miffy xx

[hectors house]

Many years ago after a rocky 8 months relationship with a parent I went on holiday for 2 weeks, when I came back I found they had posted through the door a letter stating they were giving 4 weeks notice and they had dated it the day I went away - I contacted NCMA and they helped me word a letter stating that according to clause x in the contract that a period of notice couldn't include unpaid holiday.

The parent finally agreed to continue to send the child for the whole 4 weeks but the atmosphere was so tense my husband said it would have been easier to just accept the 2 weeks and be shot of them sooner but I found that these parents were very manipulative and I just wanted them to accept that they had to play by the rules of the contract this time.

[Simona]

Notice given during the settings' closure or our holidays is only valid if it is clearly stated in the contract...then yes it is enforceable.

Despite the many instances of 'non payment' by parents for whatever reasons cms continue to be very much against taking a deposit to avoid those non payment and notice problems.


We are all different and therefore can do as we see fit for our business...I agree with that.
How long before the insurance will start questioning this?
I would not expect to be able to rent a house or buy a car without putting down a deposit...so why is this different for childcare when we are providing a service which often we have to subsidise as well?

I feel very strongly that we must protect our sustainability...as said before the 30 hours of childcare will only make things worse...just spare a thought on this.

[KatieFS]

I feel happy ish with the outcome. Parent been true to form only thinking if herself and perhaps hoped I would accept 2 weeks notice.
If I can afford it I would accept 2 weeks but it will be August and I'm low on work. I will not be too sorry to see the parent go, often changing hours, late paying and picking up. Will really miss the lo though. I'll look forward to the nursery dealing with the parent In the future (sarcasm)

[bunyip]

Notice given during the settings' closure or our holidays is only valid if it is clearly stated in the contract...then yes it is enforceable.

Despite the many instances of 'non payment' by parents for whatever reasons cms continue to be very much against taking a deposit to avoid those non payment and notice problems.


We are all different and therefore can do as we see fit for our business...I agree with that.
How long before the insurance will start questioning this?
I would not expect to be able to rent a house or buy a car without putting down a deposit...so why is this different for childcare when we are providing a service which often we have to subsidise as well?

I feel very strongly that we must protect our sustainability...as said before the 30 hours of childcare will only make things worse...just spare a thought on this.

I'm with you on CMs protecting their income.

But it is easy to push this too hard so that it becomes a deal-breaker. As you say, people generally have to pay a deposit and rent in advance on housing. Demanding parents do the same for childcare too can push them too far.

The effect of deposit + advance payment is that of paying for 2 months housing and 2 months childcare in advance. Those are possibly the biggest expenses facing a family. Remember, they almost certainly get paid in arrears by their employers.

If we risk leaving their bank accounts looking something like the Greek exchequer, we risk them going elsewhere for their childcare.

Most self-employed people get paid in arrears also, and many face big cash-flow issues. I'm not arguing we should do the same, but it's worth remembering and worth understanding the client's point of view.

[lollipop kid]

I'm with you on CMs protecting their income.

But it is easy to push this too hard so that it becomes a deal-breaker. As you say, people generally have to pay a deposit and rent in advance on housing. Demanding parents do the same for childcare too can push them too far.

The effect of deposit + advance payment is that of paying for 2 months housing and 2 months childcare in advance. Those are possibly the biggest expenses facing a family. Remember, they almost certainly get paid in arrears by their employers.

If we risk leaving their bank accounts looking something like the Greek exchequer, we risk them going elsewhere for their childcare.

Most self-employed people get paid in arrears also, and many face big cash-flow issues. I'm not arguing we should do the same, but it's worth remembering and worth understanding the client's point of view.

Bunyip, I agree.

It's worth bearing in mind, though, that some first time parents are making the choice between a Nursery (who will most likely insist on taking a deposit, plus other associated 'signing up' costs), and us.

For those parents who I can tell the deposit is going to put a strain on, I let them 'phase' it in. So two weeks deposit paid (in addition to their advance 4 weeks payment) on signing paperwork, and the last 2 weeks when the next 4 week's payment is due). The worst that can happen is that the parent decides during settling in that they don't want the place - I may only have 2 weeks deposit in hand rather than 4, but hey ho. I can live with that. (This has never happened to me, though, thankfully.)

It's a two-way street, so us being aware that they might be struggling and using a bit of sensitivity can go a long way sometimes. (Unless they are takers, then you may not want to take them in the first place. If only we had a crystal ball, eh?)



LK

[Simona]

I'm with you on CMs protecting their income.

But it is easy to push this too hard so that it becomes a deal-breaker. As you say, people generally have to pay a deposit and rent in advance on housing. Demanding parents do the same for childcare too can push them too far.

The effect of deposit + advance payment is that of paying for 2 months housing and 2 months childcare in advance. Those are possibly the biggest expenses facing a family. Remember, they almost certainly get paid in arrears by their employers.

If we risk leaving their bank accounts looking something like the Greek exchequer, we risk them going elsewhere for their childcare.

Most self-employed people get paid in arrears also, and many face big cash-flow issues. I'm not arguing we should do the same, but it's worth remembering and worth understanding the client's point of view.

Bunyp...getting a deposit or otherwise is totally up to the cm

There is no way it can be 'pushed'...it can be part of the services we offer and explained by cms very clearly to parents before signing a contract
Parents can take the contract home...read it...then come back and discuss

Lollipop...I see your point
Parents struggle....I too used to struggle when the LA funding hardly covered my childcare costs....so yes it is a 2 way system.....parents and cms must understand this.
It seems to me it is all about 'hard working families' and how much it cost in childcare...I also know how much it would cost to chase non payments!

Yes a deposit can be a large sum but it is refundable and really has no comparison to any Greek bank

If parents default on our fees then we would be left with an empty bank account.
Parents get a lot of help financially towards childcare...we get nothing to sustain our business.

Deposits are a guarantee...cms can charge it or not.

The reason cms can request to be paid in advance is because some of our expenses are also paid in advance...cms too may not have the liquidity in the account to pay for certain things in advance.

In 22 year I have always been paid in advance...always received a deposit and refunded it and no parent has ever raised a worry about this.
That is how I wish to run my business, other cms can do as they see fit.

[bunyip]

Bunyp...getting a deposit or otherwise is totally up to the cm

There is no way it can be 'pushed'...it can be part of the services we offer and explained by cms very clearly to parents before signing a contract
Parents can take the contract home...read it...then come back and discuss

Lollipop...I see your point
Parents struggle....I too used to struggle when the LA funding hardly covered my childcare costs....so yes it is a 2 way system.....parents and cms must understand this.
It seems to me it is all about 'hard working families' and how much it cost in childcare...I also know how much it would cost to chase non payments!

Yes a deposit can be a large sum but it is refundable and really has no comparison to any Greek bank

If parents default on our fees then we would be left with an empty bank account.
Parents get a lot of help financially towards childcare...we get nothing to sustain our business.

Deposits are a guarantee...cms can charge it or not.

The reason cms can request to be paid in advance is because some of our expenses are also paid in advance...cms too may not have the liquidity in the account to pay for certain things in advance.

In 22 year I have always been paid in advance...always received a deposit and refunded it and no parent has ever raised a worry about this.
That is how I wish to run my business, other cms can do as they see fit.

All true.

I think we all got that and don't need the puppets and crayons out any longer.

[Simona]

All true.

I think we all got that and don't need the puppets and crayons out any longer.

Whatever your response means Bunyip it is probably a little sarcastic and unfriendly....no worries!
Good luck !