What can I do about the 15 minutes?!

**zanacal** · 08-02-2015, 10:22 PM

I look after a child from 1pm to 6pm and have had an enquiry for a child to come from 8am to 1.15pm - is there anything I can do about the extra 15 minutes?! It would be so good to be able to fill the rest of the day! My daughter takes up the 3rd spot!

**Ripeberry** · 08-02-2015, 10:27 PM

Can the 1pm child come at 1.30pm instead?. Or the new child to go at 12.45 instead? Seems silly but the 15 mins would be a problem as it's new business.

**zanacal** · 08-02-2015, 10:32 PM

It's insane ... even if I could get the new child to collect at 1pm, what if one was early or one was late, there would have to be a gap wouldn't there?!

**zanacal** · 09-02-2015, 06:06 PM

The child would leave at the beginning of the Summer holidays too as starting pre-school in September!

**zanacal** · 08-02-2015, 10:33 PM

... and the existing child is likely changing their hours in September anyway!

**natlou82** · 09-02-2015, 06:27 AM

How annoying! Although you only mention 3 children altogether, is there another?

**tess1981** · 09-02-2015, 08:29 AM

What would happen if (and I'm just throwing out there lol) the 1.15pm child was meant to go home at 12 and other child was due at 1pm but the weather was so bad and the 12pm mummy was stuck know in snow and broke down and was really late to collect and arrive at 1.30pm... my point is if you ask 1.15 mum to collect a little early she could be late no matter what time it is iyswim... so I can't see why you can't have her collect at 1 and other child arrive at 1

**hectors house** · 09-02-2015, 09:18 AM

I had something similar to this - I asked the father of the arriving child to arrive at 3.15 and said he would need to stay until the collecting parent had arrived (anytime between 3.15 - 3.30) luckily his job was flexible enough to allow him to do this. In my case it was only one day a week on a 6 week short term contract but think that after a while I may have adjusted it to have an overlap and put it down as continuity of care, if it was causing the parent to be late for work.

**JCrakers** · 09-02-2015, 10:13 AM

I would work around it tbh. I would do a 8am-1pm contract and a 1pm-6pm contract. Ask parents to pick up at contracted times but if they are late a few minutes/early then a couple of mins wouldn't matter surely. If the parent really wants the space then maybe they can come 15mins later?

Can you only have 2 under 5's?

Personally, I wouldn't be turning down a mindee and potential wage with bills to pay for a matter of a few minutes. But then I suppose that's not good advice as we have to stick to the 'rules'.

Simona · 10-02-2015, 02:44 PM

Zanacal...I got the reply from Ofsted

Your overlap comes under the number of children CMs can care for ...6 under 8 maximum...you can RA and inform parents and, as long as you take care of all children's needs ...it is OK

I am also informed there is no such thing as 'variations' anymore as Ofsted do not add conditions to the number and ages we can look after as long as it is no more that 6 under 8.

I hope that clarifies it for you and for us all

**SYLVIA** · 10-02-2015, 07:41 PM

So on that basis when my grandson starts with me next january and for 3 hours one day a week I will have 4 under 5 and 2 schoolies it will be fine?

Simona · 09-02-2015, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by zanacal

I look after a child from 1pm to 6pm and have had an enquiry for a child to come from 8am to 1.15pm - is there anything I can do about the extra 15 minutes?! It would be so good to be able to fill the rest of the day! My daughter takes up the 3rd spot!

Ah...that is a question about overlap for cms...Truss intended to deal with it but somehow forgot and then got moved to somewhere I now forget!!

if I were in your shoes I would ring Ofsted...then give the DfE a call too...I would ask the parents to make the call too as they often moan we are 'not flexible' enough.

This is about 'flexibility' but the inflexibility to adapt to small requests...a very interesting thread running in this forum elsewhere.

**zanacal** · 09-02-2015, 11:50 AM

Yes sorry, there is another child - so my daughter and one other all day, an existing child in the afternoon and a potential child in the morning. I will call Ofsted for advice, thank you! I do have an Assistant I could bring in for an hour over lunch if I must.

**AliceK** · 09-02-2015, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by zanacal

Yes sorry, there is another child - so my daughter and one other all day, an existing child in the afternoon and a potential child in the morning. I will call Ofsted for advice, thank you! I do have an Assistant I could bring in for an hour over lunch if I must.

Good luck with getting any kind of answer out of Ofsted. I had a situation and I wanted to know if it can be classed as continuity of care. All they ever did was quote the EYFS at me. Great lot of help that was, I CAN read, I just interpret it differently depending on quite HOW I am reading it. They wont give you a straight yes or no answer IMO.

xxx

**zanacal** · 09-02-2015, 12:36 PM

I daren't phone them now while the children are sleeping because I'm waiting for the recovery truck to arrive for my car which is broken down on the drive way - Monday is hitting me hard!

How would it be if mum signed up from 7.30 until 1 but was consistently arriving a little late to collect - could I then suggest she revises the hours of her contract and not worry about the 15 minute overlap because it's continuity of care. To me the message is so blurry, as to whether we are capable of looking after 3 or 4 children, that it should depend on how well you already know the child!

**Rick** · 09-02-2015, 01:22 PM

According to the EYFS and information received from DfE, there are no circumstances whereby you should increase ratios for new business, even 15 minutes. Of course with anything you decide to do, you would need to explain your actions to an inspector.

There is a PDF further down the thread on this link (post 17) with follow up questions to DfE which states clearly that we should not increase ratios for new business.

IMPORTANT INFO FROM OFSTED AND DfE

Simona · 09-02-2015, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by zanacal

I daren't phone them now while the children are sleeping because I'm waiting for the recovery truck to arrive for my car which is broken down on the drive way - Monday is hitting me hard!

How would it be if mum signed up from 7.30 until 1 but was consistently arriving a little late to collect - could I then suggest she revises the hours of her contract and not worry about the 15 minute overlap because it's continuity of care. To me the message is so blurry, as to whether we are capable of looking after 3 or 4 children, that it should depend on how well you already know the child!

If you call Ofsted or DfE explain clearly this a is an 'overlap' by 15 minutes....you are not asking for an increase in numbers....I think it is worth a try?
I agree it is very blurred and after 3 years neither depts have made an effort to clarify and make everyone's life easier.
They keep talking about flexibility...this is a prime example.

I will flag it up again at OBC.

Good luck

**zanacal** · 10-02-2015, 10:13 PM

Thanks everyone. The parent has arranged to pick her child up at 1pm after all.

What gets me is that as a relatively new childminder, if I didn't belong to this forum I wouldn't even have heard the phrase 'continuity of care'. I would refer to the EYFS and then call Ofted and/or my Early Years Advisor (who is actually a great support) and both would have told me it's up to me and that if I risk assess I can do it!

**JCrakers** · 11-02-2015, 08:15 AM

The variation and ratio numbers thing is so confusing zanacal that even childminders who have been doing this since it came in are still confused.

We are supposed to be offering a flexible service to parents and how can we when we don't really know what we can and can't do. The problem we face is making the wrong decision and being labelled as overminding. It's a really bad system which doesn't really give us any support when making decisions.

Simona · 12-02-2015, 08:18 AM

Zanacal...your OP has now branched off to something a bit bigger
Sorry about that but hope this will help you ...and many more CMs...in the end.

I will continue to look into the matter and when I have news I will post in a new thread

PS: has any cm ever seen/read an actual inspection report where another cm has been downgraded for having too many children?

does anyone know if any cm has ever complained after inspection about being downgraded for having too many children?