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My parents all know that I do not do Nursery or school runs therefore they choose to send their children to me a couple of whole days and to a Nursery that also offers whole day sessions. I have a minimum of 7 hours a day contract.
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Just my opinion but if you charge while child is getting free hours at nursery isn, that like charging top up fees really. Child is not getting free education or childcare what ever we want to call it. As I say just my thoughts on a very grey area.
teacake2
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I have a parent hoping to have their child in preschool from 9-3 2 days a week, shes currently there from 9-12, then just be charged from 3-5.30 by me. While I understand she wants to cut costs, I can't fill the space until 3, and even it I could wouldn't be able to cover holidays as I'd be over numbers, plus I can't afford to do it!
I completely get where the parents are coming from but business wise it doesn't work, and they could always use the free hours with a childminder if they really wanted the 'free education'
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Originally Posted by
teacake2
Just my opinion but if you charge while child is getting free hours at nursery isn, that like charging top up fees really. Child is not getting free education or childcare what ever we want to call it. As I say just my thoughts on a very grey area.
teacake2
It's the provider of the funded hours who can't charge any top up's . As we are not the providers we are just charging because that space is available for the child to use when needed for school hols, inset days, snow days etc etc etc when the nursery is closed (which happens a lot here) If a parent really doesn't want to pay it then they have the right to ask us for a contract which states eg 11.45 - 18.00 but then the space is not available for them when the nursery is closed. In this instance they would pay my higher hourly rate anyway so wouldn't be much better off.
xxxx
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Originally Posted by
teacake2
Just my opinion but if you charge while child is getting free hours at nursery isn, that like charging top up fees really. Child is not getting free education or childcare what ever we want to call it. As I say just my thoughts on a very grey area.
teacake2
Very good question...and one that needs a bit of reflection as it involves politics and politicians' meddling in childcare!
the provider cannot charge for anything as the FE has to be free from the point of delivery ...this is DfE requirement but...as you say the parents are being charged one way or another
In other private settings (not schools as they do not deal with payment for the free hours and also get a higher level of funding)... the session has been extended ...possibly by a short time which allows the nursery/preschool to charge for that time
In the case of CMs we need to look at history and how much Truss has done and how much she missed!!
Before her intervention only Accredited CMs in a Network were able to do the funding ...so parents chose preschools/nurseries to take advantage of the subsidised hours because those CMs were very few
Horrible system that was and very discriminatory to the rest of CMs...but that is another matter!
Truss has changed that by allowing all Good/outstanding CMs (or so she thinks because she has not looked at how LAs dictate the rules/conditions)..... to deliver funding BUT...parents are still sending their children to preschool/nursery and the CMs left to fill impossible hours and lose money
Parents choose another setting to deliver the Free Education while the CM may be herself able to offer the funding...this is because parents believe children need larger groups to 'get ready for school' or some other reason
Once the child goes to school they probably need a CM again for school pick up!!!!
That is the reason behind this and parents are sometimes being charged by the CM while they are accessing the free funding...or subsidy...somewhere else
So the politicians have not solved the problem and parents are not saving but the govt will spin this and say that their policies are achieving 'more affordable childcare'.....and Truss will be hailed a hero and rewarded with a dept Portfolio at the next imminent reshuffle!
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Originally Posted by
AliceK
It's the provider of the funded hours who can't charge any top up's . As we are not the providers we are just charging because that space is available for the child to use when needed for school hols, inset days, snow days etc etc etc when the nursery is closed (which happens a lot here) If a parent really doesn't want to pay it then they have the right to ask us for a contract which states eg 11.45 - 18.00 but then the space is not available for them when the nursery is closed. In this instance they would pay my higher hourly rate anyway so wouldn't be much better off.
xxxx
Other PVI providers are not charging 'Top Up fees' ...that is actually against the LAs Code of Practice or Conditions of Funding and against DfE requirements....but they have a system that allows them to extend their session...by a very short time.... and get more than the 3 hours and extra money
It is worth CMs looking at how they do it and how they view the 'funded hours'...it is also worth CMs engaging with other settings and learn from them
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I have 2 boys at nursery in a morning , I also charge as you cant fill the space as they will need it in holidays .....my parents are brill tho when I explained this they both said theyd never expect not to pay so I guess im very lucky
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Originally Posted by
bunyip
I hate to state the obvious, but I'll do it anyway.
Regulation is, by definition, "...politics and politicians meddling in childcare."
So, if you don't want the meddling, then what you really want is deregulation of the childcare industry. Which is exactly what unregistered/illegal minders (choose your terminology according to preference) would be arguing for - if they ever crawled out from under their stones to argue anything.
(The other thing I hate is apostrophe abuse.
)
It looks to me like the unregistered CMs do not have to come out and argue anything as the meddling politicians have granted their wish...up to 3 hours of care without any form of regulation or inspection...
it would be great to research how many will provide wraparound care at little cost and, therefore, achieve the 'more affordable childcare Truss has thrown parents' way !
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Originally Posted by
Simona
It looks to me like the unregistered CMs do not have to come out and argue anything as the meddling politicians have granted their wish...up to 3 hours of care without any form of regulation or inspection...
it would be great to research how many will provide wraparound care at little cost and, therefore, achieve the 'more affordable childcare Truss has thrown parents' way !
You know, what I really hate about that?
As you say, unregulated childcarers can provide up to 3 hours per day from September. But a CRB-checked assistant with paediatric first aid qualification, passed 'suitable' by Ofsted and following the policies, etc. and insurance cover of a registered CM can still provide on 2 hours sole care per day.
I want to start punching Truss's smarmy face on the promise that I'll stop only when she can explain the logic........
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Daisychain, can you register to provide the funded hours? Then the child could keep attending the same hours as before and Mum would get her funded hours.
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I have suggested that to her but she wants her to go the nursery. She has gone to the lengths of getting the child christened soon and has started attending church to get her in this school ! :-/
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Originally Posted by
*daisychain*
I have suggested that to her but she wants her to go the nursery. She has gone to the lengths of getting the child christened soon and has started attending church to get her in this school ! :-/
The reason for that maybe the parent feels her child needs some experience of larger groups and therefore be ready for school in that way?
My experience is that when a cm draws funding the parents still mix the CM with a larger group experience
The other issue of 'starting to go to church ' to be accepted in the Church school is something I have never understood...
parents who I believe are religious never go to church but suddenly appear a few months before the vicar/priest is due to sign their church attendance to get a school place????
After that they do not go to church again?
Bunyip...if you have an issue with Truss' policies better hurry up to tell her
lots of speculation that she is going to be promoted next week in the Cabinet reshuffle....one particular speculation is that she may be elevated Minister for Universities
I rest my case!!!
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Haven't read all post so sorry if this has been said
But why aren't
1) parents using funded hours with CMs ? As all CM can offer 3 yr old funding the restrictions are only on 2yr old, I thought
2) why dnot CM suggest parents use funded hours for full day at pre-sch - rather then just morning session. Then parents find childcare to cover the other days. Ok this doesn't solve holidays but solves having to pay for CM for non attending spaces.
I do not charge whilst at nursery the children go to nursery on other days - although I do do a couple morning drop offs 8-9 and replace that child with 9am morning pick up for the rest of the day.
I have some children who come 8-5 some that come 9-2.30 and even got a 1yr old that comes 2.30-5.30 cause that's the only space I had free n they really wanted a space but I and the parents were flexible ( parent studying) - all EY too. I am full everyday have 4 on some days and only 1 after sch.
I think the hours are there however we need to be flexible - I am flexible and I d'not/wouldn't charge for none attending hours and I'm full so IMO this works .
I fear we are doing ourselves out of jobs and very young children will end up being at nursery/sch/academy from 8-6 Monday to Friday what a horrible thought !
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Originally Posted by
tori4
Haven't read all post so sorry if this has been said
But why aren't
1) parents using funded hours with CMs ? As all CM can offer 3 yr old funding the restrictions are only on 2yr old, I thought
2) why dnot CM suggest parents use funded hours for full day at pre-sch - rather then just morning session. Then parents find childcare to cover the other days. Ok this doesn't solve holidays but solves having to pay for CM for non attending spaces.
I do not charge whilst at nursery the children go to nursery on other days - although I do do a couple morning drop offs 8-9 and replace that child with 9am morning pick up for the rest of the day.
I have some children who come 8-5 some that come 9-2.30 and even got a 1yr old that comes 2.30-5.30 cause that's the only space I had free n they really wanted a space but I and the parents were flexible ( parent studying) - all EY too. I am full everyday have 4 on some days and only 1 after sch.
I think the hours are there however we need to be flexible - I am flexible and I d'not/wouldn't charge for none attending hours and I'm full so IMO this works .
I fear we are doing ourselves out of jobs and very young children will end up being at nursery/sch/academy from 8-6 Monday to Friday what a horrible thought !
I agree with you and share your words of warning especially now childcare has officially become an 'open market'
One of the reasons is that both preschools and nurseries have rather strict rules on taking up the place for the funded hours...find out and compare...
It is worth communicating with another setting where they share the care with us and we will realise how cms go out of their way to accommodate and bend over backwards
Yes we need to be flexible and the funded hours can be delivered between 7am and 7 pm...but preschools do not do that
so they have adapted their offer
With regards to charging while at another setting ...this is unique to CMs and does not involve other settings doing the same...we lose money unless we can fill those 3 hours with another child but although easy in theory it is not in practice
Can we imagine a preschool charging while their child is with a cm?
This issue is a longstanding one...in the past we got away with charging, whether we can continue to do so I am not sure so we must find other ways and there are a few which spring to mind !!
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