Over tiredness and ..

[Karen1]

Right,

I have child since February aged 2. Her mum is a shift worker and I keep three days open for her a week, but often only uses one day, which is a different story.

Child gets up at 5.30am and gets to me for 7am, as mum works close by, but they live over an hour away. Dad collects.

Now child has been coming and will only sleep if I drive for a long time and can then transfer her to bed. Otherwise she won't go down for sleep, or walk in buggy. Won't sit quiet. Now she is so tired when she arrives with me, it has been ok, but it is getting worse, her behaviour and tiredness on arrival and during the day is awful.

The last two days (an odd week of two days), she has been horrendous. Crying at everything (for example dropped her bread stick on the floor, I put it in the bin and she had a melt down , threw her self on floor and screamed, even though I gave her another!), arguing with other mindee because every toy was hers, though other minded kept saying, no, it belongs to x (my LO, who was at preschool). Then we went for nursery drop for other child, I drove around to get her to sleep, transferred her to bed and she woke and screamed and screamed at me. Constant crying, everything I ask or say she says no, or comes back with a remark. Other minded upset cos of her crying and arguing all the time.Really feel like its enough today, and it's all because she is so tired. She constantly yawns and looks shattered.

Plus, to top it all she was chatting about the new school she's going to in September, it has toys there!! Had a little prompt, but sounds like she's going to nursery in sept. I know parents only need to give me four weeks and she's term time only as well, so can imagine that in August they will just give notice. But am annoyed that they haven't said anything.

I spoke to dad on collection about how tired she was today and he just said oh. I repeated and he said oh, so felt stupid and didn't say anymore, as he was rushing out the door.

Now I have to text mum later for July hours- should I ask is. X going to nursery in sept? As can let other parents know I have extra days and a space, which I can fill. Or should I wait and just give notice, as that is what I feel like at the moment.

Should I ask or not? Any ideas on how to word it. Tia

[k1rstie]

If she is term time only, you should be given notice next week or the week after, so that the notice period does not fall while she is it there.


I personally would be keeping my fingers crossed for notice, as it sounds a really difficult situation at the moment. I would not be prepared to drive a child round the streets to get them to sleep.

Good luck

[littlebears1009]

You could say, lo has mentioned a new school shes going to and ask if she is going to nursery in sept. Just say you are fine with it as she is a nightmare (obv dont inc the latter :O), however if they can confirm now you can advertise the space as people will be looking now for sept starts. It may also make you more tolerant of the not so good behaviour as you would know it wouldnt be for much longer!

[loocyloo]

Around about now I give all my parents a letter asking them for their childcare requirements for the next school year. I ask if they want to change anything due to nursery/school/clubs. And a little reminder that although I am asking for September, I do require 4 working weeks notice.

Along with the general letter I give them a personalised form with their current contracted hours and days on it plus a Yes/no box to cross out! And room to write anything else needed/wished for.

Good luck x

[littlebears1009]

Around about now I give all my parents a letter asking them for their childcare requirements for the next school year. I ask if they want to change anything due to nursery/school/clubs. And a little reminder that although I am asking for September, I do require 4 working weeks notice.

Along with the general letter I give them a personalised form with their current contracted hours and days on it plus a Yes/no box to cross out! And room to write anything else needed/wished for.

Good luck x

This is a fab idea, may take this on board myself :-)

[Daisy1956]

I do this aswell it helps to know in advance especially if any are moving onto high school.

[rickysmiths]

I think I would give notice myself next week for the end of term.

I would find it very difficult to have a child like that who wouldn't have a sleep. It is not good for the child at that age getting up so early and not having a nap in the day, she needs a sleep.

[Karen1]

Thank you for all the replies.

I didn't think about the fact that she should be giving notice whilst she's here, just thought it would be end of July. So that means I think I will do the idea of sending out your requirements for September letter-brilliant idea.

Luckily, I don't have her until next Wednesday now! So a breather. But i need July dates, so I can invoice and normally text around now, I'm just going to say

Hi x

Can you send me July dates you require ASAP. Also, I am asking all parents if their requirements from September remain the same, as it is the start of a new school year.
Thanks...?

[dolly1985]

Just seen this Karen, come round here on Wednesday with her if you want!! May be a change of scenery for her will make her a bit easier to handle!!! I sent you a PM 5mins ago

[VeggieSausage]

I personally think these situations are often better done with either phoning mum and speaking to her directly or ask if you can pop round for a chat if you don't see her at pick up time. This does not work for the child or for you and needs addressing asap.....poor child and poor you......

[Samijanec]

I'd ask and do what loco suggested as well.

[Rubybubbles]

Around about now I give all my parents a letter asking them for their childcare requirements for the next school year. I ask if they want to change anything due to nursery/school/clubs. And a little reminder that although I am asking for September, I do require 4 working weeks notice. Along with the general letter I give them a personalised form with their current contracted hours and days on it plus a Yes/no box to cross out! And room to write anything else needed/wished for. Good luck x

What a great way to ensure they don't try and run during holidays! Will keep this one in mind!

[Karen1]

Spoke to mum this morning.

She says child is talking about her brother going to school in sept and that child wants to go too. But she has no plans to leave me, and hopes I want child to stay with me too !!!

The tiredness she says she can't help as she lives so far away, but they are moving in November to rented house, as planning to go to Australia next year some time, so may move closer!

Well what a conversation, they certainly don't tell us anything.

So all in all, child won't be with me much longer another year maybe. So will try and work through it.

Thanks for replies, will def be putting into place that letter.

Thank you. Think I'm getting braver in this game of asking and telling parents.

[bunyip]

Around about now I give all my parents a letter asking them for their childcare requirements for the next school year. I ask if they want to change anything due to nursery/school/clubs. And a little reminder that although I am asking for September, I do require 4 working weeks notice.

Along with the general letter I give them a personalised form with their current contracted hours and days on it plus a Yes/no box to cross out! And room to write anything else needed/wished for.

Good luck x

With respect, I'd be reluctant to put "4 working weeks notice" into any contract.

For one thing, contracted notice cuts both ways. If you had a TTO client and then some change of circumstances meant you needed to give them notice after the summer holidays had begun, you'd be unable to do so before September. So you're tied to them and are responsible for providing care for the first 4 weeks of the new school year. If you couldn't/wouldn't do it, the family would have grounds to sue you for the cost of getting another setting to step in an fill the void.

There was a mum on [unmentionable webite: will "Fishing_tackle_maternal_parents" get starred out, I wonder? ] who also posted briefly on this site some while back. She had disputed her CM's right to enforce 4 working weeks notice. The case went to court and the court ruled in favour of the mum. IIRC it judged that the "no notice to be given in the holidays" rule to apply only when one or other party was "away on holiday" - ie. it doesn't apply just because school's out. 4 working weeks notice would've been reasonable if the CM was directly employed (nanny-like) but was judged to be an "unconscionable clause" for a contract with a self-employed person, and thus the entire contract was null and void.

Practically speaking, it's something you'd probably get away with 9 times out of 10 cos the client wouldn't go down the legal route. It's just not a risk that I'd want to take or advise others to.

[Karen1]

Update.child came today. Mum said i dont need monday space from sept, just tuesday and wednesday cos xx is going to school on a monday.

Now i only asked her ladt week and she told me no, x must have been talking bout her brother! As she is a shift worker i kerp the spsces open, but she doesnt always use them. Im wondering now if i hadnt said anything would she have said!

Had child today and she wad a nitemare. Got her tomorrow too. Feel like she has lied to me and really feel like ending this contract. What do you all think-stick it out or give notice?

Tia

[ziggy]

Update.child came today. Mum said i dont need monday space from sept, just tuesday and wednesday cos xx is going to school on a monday.

Now i only asked her ladt week and she told me no, x must have been talking bout her brother! As she is a shift worker i kerp the spsces open, but she doesnt always use them. Im wondering now if i hadnt said anything would she have said!

Had child today and she wad a nitemare. Got her tomorrow too. Feel like she has lied to me and really feel like ending this contract. What do you all think-stick it out or give notice?

Tia

If this child is making your job unbearable and you can afford to let her go, then give notice. I couldnt deal with a tired, grumpy child

[Karen1]

Ziggy, i have just had another horrendous day with overtired child.

Arruved at 7. Mum said x been up since 4am, x then threw herself on floor screaming. Mum said im going to car for hairclip, stepped over child and left!

Two school runs, child miserable. Nursey drop at mid day, told her to sleep on way back. So she decided to scream im not sleeping, all the way home and for the next hour!

At puck up explained to dad bout the screaming,tears,no sleep, refusal to share and told 'yeah she fights it' signs register, picks up screaming x who doesnt eant to leave. Listen to her scream all down road. My neighbours myst love me

Really fed up now. Plus next time i have her i have settlung in at my sons new primary school and dreading. As know she will b dreadful. Really want to give notice. Never dobe this before, whats the best way to word it... Tia

[smurfette]

Sorry things haven't improved poor kid is exhausted it's not fair on her is it? I think that's how I would phrase it if I was you,, was there any more news on them moving closer? If not or it's too far away I would give notice , unless u can get her In a routine where she sleeps on arrival then it's too hard.. I have one the same up at 4 or 5, and wrecked by time he arrived but I have managed to get him into a routine where I put him straight down when he comes and he is bearable then! Good luck xx

[littlebears1009]

I have a baby who gets up at 4/5 am and mum just stays up with him instead of putting back to sleep. And because he sleeps again at 8.30ish when im on the school n nursery run all the getting in and out of car just bothers him n then thats it refuses to sleep and cries all day he just constantly wants to be held and looks at me and screams. Hold out as long as i can before i pick him up but really wearing me down and my dds are not happy. However he is only temp and leaving end of july. I think mum was intending to keep him with me longer as she mentioned being away in aug for a week so had to kindly inform her that my registration runs out end of july and I am not renewing (which im not). I had to give notice to another baby last yr who screamed 9-5 the 4 days a week he was with me. I tried to work with mum however she refused to send babys dummy and refused to believe he cried non stop. If I was you I would write them a letter asking them in for a chat on x date to discuss issues, explain you feel they dismiss you when you try explaining at pick up and tell them how it isnt working for you or the child. You could suggest a 4 week period and if nothing changes then notice will be given with immediate effect? That way they have a chance to implement things at home and to at least work with you. I know how you feel, screaming all day is horrible x

[Simona]

Update.child came today. Mum said i dont need monday space from sept, just tuesday and wednesday cos xx is going to school on a monday.

Now i only asked her ladt week and she told me no, x must have been talking bout her brother! As she is a shift worker i kerp the spsces open, but she doesnt always use them. Im wondering now if i hadnt said anything would she have said!

Had child today and she wad a nitemare. Got her tomorrow too. Feel like she has lied to me and really feel like ending this contract. What do you all think-stick it out or give notice?

Tia

I hope you will soon sort out this situation ....it is quite interesting to read how many different opinions are given but we are all different

It appears that this child is now going to school...or is it private nursery? I feel it is the latter if she needs you to provide one day less care?
How will the child cope with being up so early and then being so tired and unable to follow the routine...mum should really address this matter urgently...understandable that her situation is difficult but the child should be the priority....my view of course

I agree with Loocyloo about sending parents a letter asking for information on 'their requirement' for Sept...why not?
this would give us an idea of what 'our requirements' would be and act accordingly for our business' planning
At this time of the year schools, preschools and nurseries are all planning for Sept...why not CMs?

I also entirely agree on being given 4 weeks notice...parents are well aware of this in the contract and it should be brought to their attention in the letter...'please advise of any changes in requirement where 'notice' is required'...that is how I would phrase the letter!"!

I am rather worried about the suggestion that we should not expect 4 weeks working notice...why? whatever happened to one parent in court would not apply to all

If parents have a term time only contract then up to them to give notice during the time the CM works and not when children are off...
this has implications if the cm gets a retainer for the holiday period anyway

Having said all that it looks like your child needs less days in Sept and is off to nursery?...hope I got that right but... the main issue remains unresolved...this child is tired and everything in your routine and environment is having to cope with that...
you need a contract review during July and some 'next steps' from the parent on how they will deal with that matter

I am sure that all CMs are aware that at this time of the year many parents are planning for their children's next stage of learning and, often, waiting themselves to be told whether they got the space they want at the next provision...so this is the time to pre-empt that and nudge them into keeping us informed...in fact I would put that in a contract so it is clear

Good luck and hope the child gets her tiredness addressed