Clocking in and out

[rsowter]

Hi all just wondered if any of you use an actual clocking in and out machine for parents in order to confirm/charge what time they drop off and collect x

[wee_elf]

Just a thought but could you get the parent to sign their child in and they have to record the time alongside the child's name, and then the parent really cant argue early drop offs/late pick ups? x

[bunyip]

I can see how a signature might be useful - certainly in terms of safeguarding/complaints - and I can see how it might not. For one thing, I've seen enough managers falsifying 'due diligence' records in previous jobs, such that I hardly ever trust any signature I see any longer. I honestly can't see how it would do any harm to get a signature, but I agree with Bluebell that few people read anything they sign (and if you want proof, remember that 1000's of people signed away their immortal souls to GameStation via their Ts&Cs not so very long ago. )

I'm not a fan of much of pacey's paperwork. The register was one of the things I didn't replace after I'd used up the one in their starter pack. I took the starter pack to be just that: enough basic stuff thrown together quickly to get my CM ball rolling until I could figure out what my paperwork should look like for my business. Personal opinion, but I'd rather design one that actually suits the needs of my setting, then go to the pub and drink my way through the £10+* (£20+* for non-members ) which would otherwise have been leeched out of my account by the custodians of the pacey shop. Perhaps it serves as an aid to over-minding (which may explain its popularity amongst my local CMing Mafia), as any inspector possessing the patience, dedication and mental arithmetic skills to plough through a page per child to check the numbers present at any given time over a four-year cycle deserves, well.... to be in a better job than an Ofsted inspector.

I'm not 100% decided whether or not it's the parents' business to know which other children theirs have been playing with. Though I have to say, my mum usually knew with whom I'd been playing (ie. "getting up to no good".) Admittedly, that was back in the days when "community" still had a meaning, and we weren't all constantly watching our backs. But how much of a matter of "confidentiality" or "not their business" can it be to know which children have attended? Worried now: are we going to have to lock the other mindees away in silence whilst each is collected, or will it be sufficient just to throw a sheet over them until mum number 1 has removed their lo from the premises? Flippancy aside, come on, it's surely no great secret. Most the neighbours know who's here most the time: partly cos everyone knows everyone in a village, and partly cos I'm having to tell them off all the time ("Billy - put that cat down! Susie - stop ripping the wing mirror off that parked car and get your ar5e in the pushchair..." and so on. )

Probably one of those areas where we each have to do whatever works best for each of us, and agree to disagree over the differences. Still helpful to hear what everyone else does, though.



*Allowing for postage and package charges.

[Simona]

I can see how a signature might be useful - certainly in terms of safeguarding/complaints - and I can see how it might not. For one thing, I've seen enough managers falsifying 'due diligence' records in previous jobs, such that I hardly ever trust any signature I see any longer. I honestly can't see how it would do any harm to get a signature, but I agree with Bluebell that few people read anything they sign (and if you want proof, remember that 1000's of people signed away their immortal souls to GameStation via their Ts&Cs not so very long ago. )

I'm not a fan of much of pacey's paperwork. The register was one of the things I didn't replace after I'd used up the one in their starter pack. I took the starter pack to be just that: enough basic stuff thrown together quickly to get my CM ball rolling until I could figure out what my paperwork should look like for my business. Personal opinion, but I'd rather design one that actually suits the needs of my setting, then go to the pub and drink my way through the £10+* (£20+* for non-members ) which would otherwise have been leeched out of my account by the custodians of the pacey shop. Perhaps it serves as an aid to over-minding (which may explain its popularity amongst my local CMing Mafia), as any inspector possessing the patience, dedication and mental arithmetic skills to plough through a page per child to check the numbers present at any given time over a four-year cycle deserves, well.... to be in a better job than an Ofsted inspector.

I'm not 100% decided whether or not it's the parents' business to know which other children theirs have been playing with. Though I have to say, my mum usually knew with whom I'd been playing (ie. "getting up to no good".) Admittedly, that was back in the days when "community" still had a meaning, and we weren't all constantly watching our backs. But how much of a matter of "confidentiality" or "not their business" can it be to know which children have attended? Worried now: are we going to have to lock the other mindees away in silence whilst each is collected, or will it be sufficient just to throw a sheet over them until mum number 1 has removed their lo from the premises? Flippancy aside, come on, it's surely no great secret. Most the neighbours know who's here most the time: partly cos everyone knows everyone in a village, and partly cos I'm having to tell them off all the time ("Billy - put that cat down! Susie - stop ripping the wing mirror off that parked car and get your ar5e in the pushchair..." and so on. )

Probably one of those areas where we each have to do whatever works best for each of us, and agree to disagree over the differences. Still helpful to hear what everyone else does, though.



*Allowing for postage and package charges.

maybe CMs could devise a simple 'attendance list' which can be pinned on the wall or kept at hand should the parents want to see who attends which day or plays with their children?

It would not require much work and could have morning, afternoon, all day attendance, wraparound care, holiday care and easily updated as children come and go
My simple one also allows me to work sessional care and identify vacancies available ...just an idea and, as it is on my computer, also easily accessible when it needs updating....saving £10 for a couple of bottles of Merlot!

[rickysmiths]

I can see how a signature might be useful - certainly in terms of safeguarding/complaints - and I can see how it might not. For one thing, I've seen enough managers falsifying 'due diligence' records in previous jobs, such that I hardly ever trust any signature I see any longer. I honestly can't see how it would do any harm to get a signature, but I agree with Bluebell that few people read anything they sign (and if you want proof, remember that 1000's of people signed away their immortal souls to GameStation via their Ts&Cs not so very long ago. )

I'm not a fan of much of pacey's paperwork. The register was one of the things I didn't replace after I'd used up the one in their starter pack. I took the starter pack to be just that: enough basic stuff thrown together quickly to get my CM ball rolling until I could figure out what my paperwork should look like for my business. Personal opinion, but I'd rather design one that actually suits the needs of my setting, then go to the pub and drink my way through the £10+* (£20+* for non-members ) which would otherwise have been leeched out of my account by the custodians of the pacey shop. Perhaps it serves as an aid to over-minding (which may explain its popularity amongst my local CMing Mafia), as any inspector possessing the patience, dedication and mental arithmetic skills to plough through a page per child to check the numbers present at any given time over a four-year cycle deserves, well.... to be in a better job than an Ofsted inspector.

I'm not 100% decided whether or not it's the parents' business to know which other children theirs have been playing with. Though I have to say, my mum usually knew with whom I'd been playing (ie. "getting up to no good".) Admittedly, that was back in the days when "community" still had a meaning, and we weren't all constantly watching our backs. But how much of a matter of "confidentiality" or "not their business" can it be to know which children have attended? Worried now: are we going to have to lock the other mindees away in silence whilst each is collected, or will it be sufficient just to throw a sheet over them until mum number 1 has removed their lo from the premises? Flippancy aside, come on, it's surely no great secret. Most the neighbours know who's here most the time: partly cos everyone knows everyone in a village, and partly cos I'm having to tell them off all the time ("Billy - put that cat down! Susie - stop ripping the wing mirror off that parked car and get your ar5e in the pushchair..." and so on. )

Probably one of those areas where we each have to do whatever works best for each of us, and agree to disagree over the differences. Still helpful to hear what everyone else does, though.



*Allowing for postage and package charges.

I'm sorry but in this instance I think your remarks are silly and childish and I will leave it at that.

[bunyip]

No, but I've considered tattooing each child with a barcode, so I can scan them at the door.

[Koala]

Yes - I used to have all parents sign their child in and out with the time not a clocking machine though :
Upside
It proved they attended and gave me a record of times just in case. In case of what i'm not sure but anyway that's what I did - I charge a daily rate between 8am and 5.30pm so it wasn't needed for calculating their charges it was just for my records.

I had it all on one sheet so parents could see who arrived and at what time. Some parents arrive earlier and some leave later than my daily rate hours subject to agreement on both sides and charged accordingly.

Downside
parents saw that children came earlier than them and were picked up later than them - some parents felt they were loosing out and started coming earlier and earlier and picking up later and later to their scheduled time - this off course pee'd me off and it had to be addressed as other children starting earlier - picking up late were of course paying accordingly or we had agreed different hours. A problem that I could have avoided if I didn't have a signing in sheet.
Also I could see that some parents were mentally calculating how much money I was making, I work with an assistant so quite often had 6 - 8 children - and snide comments were made about how I was raking it in etc... etc... you get the gist but this also, i beleive, lead to parents not paying me on time out of resentment because of course they thought that all the money I earned was for me and I didn't have expenses etc... etc... again, you get the gist.

So, in conclusion, I stopped doing a signing in sheet and just made mental notes on my register of people taking the mick, but it doesn't really bother me 10/15 mins at either end of the day but it used to when it was on the signing in sheet. Parents mind their own business instead of mine and Payments are received on time without any snide comments about how much money I was making.

A signing in sheet is a good thing to do - but be mindful of the above - if I were to do this again I would have a signing in sheet separate for each child, and their contracted times stated on the top in NEON but this can be hectic if you have lots of children.

[rickysmiths]

Yes - I used to have all parents sign their child in and out with the time not a clocking machine though :
Upside
It proved they attended and gave me a record of times just in case. In case of what i'm not sure but anyway that's what I did - I charge a daily rate between 8am and 5.30pm so it wasn't needed for calculating their charges it was just for my records.

I had it all on one sheet so parents could see who arrived and at what time. Some parents arrive earlier and some leave later than my daily rate hours subject to agreement on both sides and charged accordingly.

Downside
parents saw that children came earlier than them and were picked up later than them - some parents felt they were loosing out and started coming earlier and earlier and picking up later and later to their scheduled time - this off course pee'd me off and it had to be addressed as other children starting earlier - picking up late were of course paying accordingly or we had agreed different hours. A problem that I could have avoided if I didn't have a signing in sheet.
Also I could see that some parents were mentally calculating how much money I was making, I work with an assistant so quite often had 6 - 8 children - and snide comments were made about how I was raking it in etc... etc... you get the gist but this also, i beleive, lead to parents not paying me on time out of resentment because of course they thought that all the money I earned was for me and I didn't have expenses etc... etc... again, you get the gist.

So, in conclusion, I stopped doing a signing in sheet and just made mental notes on my register of people taking the mick, but it doesn't really bother me 10/15 mins at either end of the day but it used to when it was on the signing in sheet. Parents mind their own business instead of mine and Payments are received on time without any snide comments about how much money I was making.

A signing in sheet is a good thing to do - but be mindful of the above - if I were to do this again I would have a signing in sheet separate for each child, and their contracted times stated on the top in NEON but this can be hectic if you have lots of children.

This is why each child has a page of the register to themselves to preserve confidentiality when the parents sign each week. I can't imagine just having a page with all the children on.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

This is why each child has a page of the register to themselves to preserve confidentiality when the parents sign each week. I can't imagine just having a page with all the children on.

Whereas I have all my children on one sheet and the parents don't see it because I sign them in and out

[k1rstie]

Whereas I have all my children on one sheet and the parents don't see it because I sign them in and out

I do the same.

[Koala]

This is why each child has a page of the register to themselves to preserve confidentiality when the parents sign each week. I can't imagine just having a page with all the children on.

It depends how you work - there is no break in confidentiality each parent knowing who attends with their child each day in fact it is good practice to share this - it was much simpler for me having one sheet per week for all to sign on - instead of juggling 13 different sheets throughout the week and 6 - 8 sheets daily for parents to sign in and out daily for their child - time and space allowing it would be a good idea but practically a nightmare. I do the register now .

"bar code'' a great idea with self scanning monitors at the door and sage processed invoicing all automatically done would be fantastic.

[funemnx]

I have all mine micro-chipped at the local RSPCA - that way no need so sign in - another plus is I never lose one!

[watford wizz]

Loving the bar code idea could we also get them chipped with important info in case lost and found ?

[chriss]

No need is there ? I just charge for contracted hours, so if they collect early or drop off late, fee is as in their contracted hours. Also its enough to get kids out of the door without too much fuss, never mind parents signing them in n out lol.

I just log the childrens in and out times in the register, parents dont sign anything.

[watford wizz]

And if the escape the house garden an alarm sounds x

[rsowter]

Lol you lot are so funny

[bunyip]

I use a page-to-a-week register, and al parents can see whose attended. I see this as openness. It's not confidential, and since I mark my grandchildren's attendance and Mrs B's (as assistant) including sole care provided by her, anyone can see I'm not overminding.

Tbh, I doubt if many of my clients check: most appear to sign it without looking. I could put down that I'd had their lo's for 48 hours a day and been on a time-travel to the Bronze Age and they'd still sign it.

If parents are making those sort of comments about "raking it in", etc. - put a line in your register just above where they sign to say "I hereby agree this is a true and accurate record of my child's attendance at 'Little Monsters Childminding Ltd.' I further agree never to moan or make any negative comments about the childcare service or the wonderful angel who provides it whilst I rake it in drinking coffee at my office desk."

[Simona]

I have never seen a requirement for parents to sign in and out
I have never seen a requirement to have an individual record of attendance for each child
A register should include all children...CMs can tick in and out and record times of arrival and departure...this will show at a quick glance those who arrive early or pick up late if you need to monitor this and charge accordingly
It will also help to monitor attendance for funded children especially in LAs where non attendance means you pay the funding back to them

In case of a fire or evacuation usually a register is taken to call all children and ensure all are safe and none left inside not individual sheets?
A register could also have all contact numbers at the back so parents/other contacts can be called for emergency pick up

Schools and other providers do not ask for signatures nor have individual attendance sheets, they are trusted to record attendance in a professional way...is there anywhere in the EYFS that asks us to do this additional paperwork?

Why should parents ask to see our register ?
not sure about the element of confidentiality as parents in a cm setting will know each other...has anyone ever been asked to see the register if so why?

My view of course and if the requirements have changed please point me to the right direction

[rickysmiths]

I have to disagree with a page a week for all the children and the parents signing and seeing all the other children's details.


It is none of the other parents business what hours/days the other children in my care do and I regard the minute detail of it confidential to that family especially with regard to holiday and sickness. How would you feel if your boss shared your holiday dates with all his other employees?

It is also useful as I found out when a malicious complaint was made because I was able to copy the particular child's register page and disprove what the mother had said. Had All the children's info been on the page I could not have used it. Believe me it was worth all the 19 years of getting parents to sign the register (if it hadn't been signed by the parent it could not have been used).

So for those of you using multiple children to a page and not getting it signed each week I urge you to think again. It is part of Safeguarding Yourself from allegations even though it is not a requirement for EYFS.


Simona I use the Pacey Attendance Register which has all the children's information and Emergency Contacts in. With regard to checking off that you have got all the children out in an emergency well I know exactly how many are in my home in any one day. I am not a school who many have over 1000 students who may be in many different places and the staff do not know where they all are in the building! Also ALL students present at the beginning of the morning and afternoon sessions are signed in. Visitors to the school are signed in and out at Reception. Bigger institution than my home.

[Simona]

I have to disagree with a page a week for all the children and the parents signing and seeing all the other children's details.


It is none of the other parents business what hours/days the other children in my care do and I regard the minute detail of it confidential to that family especially with regard to holiday and sickness. How would you feel if your boss shared your holiday dates with all his other employees?

It is also useful as I found out when a malicious complaint was made because I was able to copy the particular child's register page and disprove what the mother had said. Had All the children's info been on the page I could not have used it. Believe me it was worth all the 19 years of getting parents to sign the register (if it hadn't been signed by the parent it could not have been used).

So for those of you using multiple children to a page and not getting it signed each week I urge you to think again. It is part of Safeguarding Yourself from allegations even though it is not a requirement for EYFS.


Simona I use the Pacey Attendance Register which has all the children's information and Emergency Contacts in. With regard to checking off that you have got all the children out in an emergency well I know exactly how many are in my home in any one day. I am not a school who many have over 1000 students who may be in many different places and the staff do not know where they all are in the building! Also ALL students present at the beginning of the morning and afternoon sessions are signed in. Visitors to the school are signed in and out at Reception. Bigger institution than my home.

I appreciate that the pacey paperwork 'works for you' but many cms are not pacey members and use different formats
A school will not have a register for 1,000 students....each teacher will have a register for her own class I assume?....so 30 children... in a real evacuation the teacher will have to ensure all her charges are safe and none lost in the building

When it comes to a complaint any paperwork required by Ofsted to investigate will show all children's names and Ofsted will be liable to keep that info confidential
For cms who work with other cms the numbers may be more than 3 so they would need to know exactly who is there and all safely evacuated?

We need to use our skills and have paperwork that works for each of us and we can evidence how it is put to good practice...that is what being 'independent' is all about...no?